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Old 10-11-2011, 07:30 AM
 
47,573 posts, read 60,625,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyDay View Post
Many 18 year olds are. Especially if you're looking at a career such as law, medicine or anything requiring a graduate or post-doctorate degree.

I'd personally want my 18 year old in college (again state schools are excellent) in a strong major, rather than at home or roaming the streets. And even if you don't know exactly what you want to do, college gives you exposure to fields you may not even know about.

I was a research tech, a phlebotomist, worked for an organ transplant lab, a janitor, a camp counselor, learned how to work around radiation, an autopsy assistant...this would not have happened had I stayed home.
I don't think it's about staying home doing nothing, the skilled trades aren't about that.

Also it's not that skilled tradesmen have no exposure to the world around them. I agree that I was exposed to some things while in college I might not have otherwise been exposed to - however some one else may have been doing something else and has just as valuable experiences.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:39 AM
 
11,980 posts, read 17,493,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egamakaded idiut View Post
I was at my sister's high school graduation this summer,and as they were seated, they were asked; ''Those of you planning on attending college next year, please stand up.'' and literally 95% of the graduates stood up. I thought to myself ''My god you fools, you can't all make it this way. Whose gonna plumb, paint, roof, and take out my trash.'' Trades to this day are kinda still vital in some cases.
We import people to do that.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,367,509 times
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I have a good friend that, after working twenty years as a licensed HVAC technician, is still being paid far less than most college graduates with a "trade school" (engineering, CS, medicine) degree. Hell he is making less than some if the history and sociology graduates.

The way the skilled tradesmen make money is to become independent businessmen and have other underpaid tradesman working for them. Or be in a strong union in an organized state and not in one of these “right to work” slave states.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,546 posts, read 16,481,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
As College Tuitions Rise, Some Say It's Not Worth the Cost - ABC News

Would it be better for many (not all) 18 y/o's to shoot for learning a trade?

Absolutely!

We have way too many kids going to college.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
3,829 posts, read 2,791,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
As College Tuitions Rise, Some Say It's Not Worth the Cost - ABC News

Would it be better for many (not all) 18 y/o's to shoot for learning a trade?

It used to be that one attended to college to get EDUCATED. It had nothing to do with a trade or vocation.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:55 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,111,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
As College Tuitions Rise, Some Say It's Not Worth the Cost - ABC News

Would it be better for many (not all) 18 y/o's to shoot for learning a trade?
it depends. my advice for most people is to attend an in-state public university, and study something that you know is in demand in the labor market.

i think learning a trade is generally more cost effective than a liberal arts degree, a business degree, etc., and it is more cost effective than attending an expensive school. If you are accumulating over $100,000 worth of debt, you'd better be studying neurosurgery.

Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 10-11-2011 at 08:04 AM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:55 AM
 
10,606 posts, read 12,134,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I have a good friend that, after working twenty years as a licensed HVAC technician, is still being paid far less than most college graduates with a "trade school" (engineering, CS, medicine) degree. Hell he is making less than some if the history and sociology graduates.

The way the skilled tradesmen make money is to become independent businessmen and have other underpaid tradesman working for them. Or be in a strong union in an organized state and not in one of these “right to work” slave states.

My husband is an electrician in Virginia, although the work is done in DC. He works on commercial buildings--no residential. He went to a 5 year trade school that didn't cost him a dime. He makes about $90,000 per year straight time and over $100K if he works overtime during the year. He is not a foreman or anything like that. He is union, does pay union dues which run about $800 per year. He gets all his healthcare premiums paid for.

It is increasingly hard to get into this particular trade school (as I imagine all of them are). What used to a place for people who were good mechanically but no so much with the "books" even now wants some college. My coworkers son just got accepted into this trade school/apprenticeship program. It took him two years to get in, he had 2 years of community college under his belt AND he then had to take a full-time job being a labor grunt worker at minimum wage before they'd even look at him.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:56 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,608,124 times
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The problem with college is that somewhere along the way, the classical college model of enlightenment and critical thinking, which develop a foundation for ethical and analytical thinking that is required among the nation's leaders, was replaced by technical education. College education became a business in and of itself, a business that has a somewhat different business model than, say, other private sector businesses. The business model of higher ed is, in some ways, similar to that of the housing market in that it's driven by private sector consumer demand but largely sustained with federally (taxpayer) backed funding mechanisms.

I'm in higher ed myself, and I can see the writing on the wall, even if a lot of other delusional members of academia cannot. This is indeed a bubble, and it's going to burst, and it's going to have socioeconomic consequences of its own. The system is already strained, and we're just beginning to see it now. But this will become more evident as time moves forward. A lot of these institutions are now turning to foreign students to make up some of the difference, but that will only continue for so long. At some point, just like the Federal Reserve's monetary policies, there will be no more levers to pull or buttons to push...this 'plane' will eventually face a catastrophic crash landing and it's going to be ugly.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:03 AM
 
2,740 posts, read 2,995,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
We import people to do that.
Would these be what many have been calling "the jobs Americans don't want to do"?
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,720,487 times
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The following is anecdotal so no link and no statistics.

I had this discussion with my husband this morning. We are both involved in manufacturing. He said that all the machine shops he works with are FLAT OUT as in the employees are working 50 hr weeks. And he said that some of them are having a hard time finding machinists (note - NOT machine operators, machinists). Pay for machinists is about $20-$25/hr which is good around here. But get this, he knows of one guy who is looking for a skilled gearcutter, he has advertised in the newspapers in Boston and NY and will pay

$100 k/year.

No takers.

Hubby asked me why these shops can't find machinists and I responded by asking him to convert fractions to decimals, do inversions of fractions in his head and of course he can do it without blinking.

That's the problem I said. You need to have the basic math skill, then get the training and THEN have a work ethic that makes you the type of person to actually show up to work every day. There just aren't that many people willing and able to do it.

I tell you the jobs are there for people who have the same ability to get into college but who use that ability to learn a trade. Hell if you have the ability, the shops sometimes get together with the local CC as consortiums that will pay for your training and guarantee you a job.
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