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Old 10-11-2011, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
3,829 posts, read 2,792,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egamakaded idiut View Post
I was at my sister's high school graduation this summer,and as they were seated, they were asked; ''Those of you planning on attending college next year, please stand up.'' and literally 95% of the graduates stood up. I thought to myself ''My god you fools, you can't all make it this way. Whose gonna plumb, paint, roof, and take out my trash.'' Trades to this day are kinda still vital in some cases.

There are plenty of people to do those jobs. They are the kids who never finished school and were not in attendance.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:22 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
A college degree is worth it, but you have to actually put the effort in. Here are some statistics about current college students:


-The typical U.S. college student spends less than 30 hours a week on academics.
-Today, college students spend approximately 50% less time studying than U.S. college students did just a few decades ago.
-35% of U.S. college students spend 5 hours or less studying per week.
-50% of U.S. college students have never taken a class where they had to write more than 20 pages.
-32% of U.S. college students have never taken a class where they had to read more than 40 pages in a week.
-U.S. college students spend 24% of their time sleeping, 51% of their time socializing and 7% of their time studying.


This is how students act and we wonder why they can't find jobs?
Source???
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:26 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
I have "issues" with kids being funneled into a life-long career at 16-17 years of age. For those who say you can always go to college, "tain't necessarily so. Once you get tied down with car payments, perhaps mortgage payments, kids to raise, etc, it's hard to make a career change that involves four years (or more) of little to no income. Plus, most kids of that age don't even know what they are really interested in. There are careers out there they have never heard of. Let them go off to school and learn about a few occupations.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,556 posts, read 17,647,836 times
Reputation: 15634
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
The following is anecdotal so no link and no statistics.

I had this discussion with my husband this morning. We are both involved in manufacturing. He said that all the machine shops he works with are FLAT OUT as in the employees are working 50 hr weeks. And he said that some of them are having a hard time finding machinists (note - NOT machine operators, machinists). Pay for machinists is about $20-$25/hr which is good around here. But get this, he knows of one guy who is looking for a skilled gearcutter, he has advertised in the newspapers in Boston and NY and will pay

$100 k/year.

No takers.

Hubby asked me why these shops can't find machinists and I responded by asking him to convert fractions to decimals, do inversions of fractions in his head and of course he can do it without blinking.

That's the problem I said. You need to have the basic math skill, then get the training and THEN have a work ethic that makes you the type of person to actually show up to work every day. There just aren't that many people willing and able to do it.

I tell you the jobs are there for people who have the same ability to get into college but who use that ability to learn a trade. Hell if you have the ability, the shops sometimes get together with the local CC as consortiums that will pay for your training and guarantee you a job.
You are hitting on something often ignored. The trades are often looked at by kids, and I think by many adults, as an option for those not "smart enough" for a college/"professional" career. However, the intellectual demands on many trades far exceed that of many college programs. At a time when many colleges teach remedial HS algebra as a college class, machinists and carpenters routinely use trig.

A machinist in particular not only needs a good mathmatical background, an understanding of metalurgy and tooling, but also a good programming background to handle CNC work. Both CNC and conventional machinists need to have a good bit of creativity to design ****/fixtures used in their work.

Is college (particularly a 4 year BA degree) worth the cost? It depends. The universities need a major re-think. Their primary focus needs to be on educating students, not research. Prices need to come down to a level in line with the the product delivered. Classes for undergrads don't need a Phd as an instructor...yet at the same time, the students deserve more than a grad student as an instructor, particularly if they are not english as first language students. Costs...if you figure an instructor makes $80k per year and has 25 students, that works out to $3200 per year per student. OK, double that for the capital cost of the facilities, operations, etc. $6500 a year should cover tuition with room to spare...how do we end up with schools charging $20k plus? Or even taxpayer funded schools far exceeding that figure?

Perhaps even sooner, the HS educational system needs to be "fixed". There is no reason for 9th grade HS algebra to be taught as a remedial class in college.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:56 AM
 
2,490 posts, read 3,747,352 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by egamakaded idiut View Post
I was at my sister's high school graduation this summer,and as they were seated, they were asked; ''Those of you planning on attending college next year, please stand up.'' and literally 95% of the graduates stood up. I thought to myself ''My god you fools, you can't all make it this way. Whose gonna plumb, paint, roof, and take out my trash.'' Trades to this day are kinda still vital in some cases.
Yeah and statistically, about half of them will drop out.

I am a freshman in college, but honestly, I don't want to be in school anymore. What I really want to do now is get married, start a family, buy my first place and get a good job. But to get acquire these goals, I need a good paying job. Unfortunately, it's almost required to have a college degree to get one. Also add in the social pressure to go to college. It's not like in the 1950s when a high school diploma was the equivalent to a Bachelor's degree today. So, it's almost impossible for someone to achieve these adulthood milestones at my age in these days.

But no, I don't think college is always worth it. For some people maybe, but for most? No.

Last edited by 90sman; 10-11-2011 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:56 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,099,608 times
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"A college degree...worth the cost anymore?"

I suppose it depends on what kind of value one puts on an education. If it is viewed as simply as an avenue for future employment the equation is very simple:

Take life time potential earnings minus the total cost of college and total lost earnings while in school. If it is greater than life time earnings without a college education, then it was worth the cost.

Having said that, there are quite a few jobs where life times earnings without a college degree far accede those where a college degree is a requirement.

But for me, a college education is far more than a pathway to a higher income, it is also the path for personal enlightenment, something that I don't know how one would establish a price for.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:29 AM
 
624 posts, read 902,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
As College Tuitions Rise, Some Say It's Not Worth the Cost - ABC News

Would it be better for many (not all) 18 y/o's to shoot for learning a trade?
I'd say a degree in political science is a waste of money.

But if you are talking about engineering degrees, then it's a different story.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,546 posts, read 16,490,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moionfire View Post
Those with a Bachelors or higher have an unemployment rate now of 4.3%. This is very low!! We should do more to make higher education inexpensive, but lets not discredit a 4 year degree.

I'm not sure what the unemployment stat tells us. We frequently confuse correlation with causation.

Is the low unemployment caused by getting a college degree or would those people be successfully employed without a degree due to who they are.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,667 posts, read 74,628,627 times
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as a non dischargeable debt driven investment, probably the worst you could make.
better odds at the track.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:10 PM
 
6,635 posts, read 4,599,497 times
Reputation: 13350
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
As College Tuitions Rise, Some Say It's Not Worth the Cost - ABC News

Would it be better for many (not all) 18 y/o's to shoot for learning a trade?
One question, to what trades are you refering? There are certainly some that are in great demand (skilled machinists were mentioned by another poster). But, many are not.

Most people have need, now and again, for a Plumber, Electrician, Brick Mason, HVAC contractor, Roofer, Carpenter, Painter, Auto Mechanic, and other skilled tradespeople. In my area, I can have anyone of these to my house for an issue within a day or two.

If say 20% of kids currently attending college decided to learn one of these trades instead, wouldn't we just end up with less unemployed college grads and more unemployed tradespeople?
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