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Old 10-12-2011, 07:11 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,992 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33058

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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
If you're majoring in underwater basketweaving (i.e. poli sci, sociology, _____ studies) and you're planning on going to an out-of-state or private college, you are throwing away money. It's just as simple as that.
Even people in the above situation make more money than high school grads (as a group).

There is this romantic notion among people here on CD, esp. among the conservatives, that there are all these "trade" jobs going begging for lack of students, and that people can make the big bucks at them. This is untrue.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:27 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,720,012 times
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Again, anecdotal. But driect from the front lines.

From a colleague who is now retired from an engineering department of a land grant college in the south.

The colleges are under pressure to pass as many students as possible, and this pressure gets passed on to the professors. The udnertone is, if the kids in your class are failing, there must be something wrong with YOU. And by the way I disagree, when I was a professor I would say falt out "I can't learn it for you, you have to do that yourself." Still, this is what college administrators expect.

So back to my story - the guy tells the kids there is going to be a quiz. He suggests that they read Chapter x of the textbook. Then on the quiz he uses the EXACT SAME questions as are in the textbook as practice questions with answers.
Half the kids fail.

This is about the time when I gave up hope. I mean, would you want to ride in an elevator designed by someone who got their engineering degree because some Dean pressured the profs into passing the lazy dipwad?
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:30 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,992 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33058
Don't most civil engineers have to pass an exam to be a "Professional Engineer"?
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
20,357 posts, read 13,876,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Even people in the above situation make more money than high school grads (as a group).

There is this romantic notion among people here on CD, esp. among the conservatives, that there are all these "trade" jobs going begging for lack of students, and that people can make the big bucks at them. This is untrue.
We are begging for people with trade skill experience, and its like pulling teeth to find anyone.

What good does it do me if all my applicants are college grads who majored in political science or Language Arts, if they don't even know what something as basic as a center punch is? Why do we think a person's college education is complete, when they can't even nail two pieces of wood together?
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Don't most civil engineers have to pass an exam to be a "Professional Engineer"?
Sometimes, out of desperation, we hire people who graduated from the proper schools where they should know at least the basics. We have an agreement with them that they get their certification within a year of being hired. A year later the person still hasn't been able to pass their cert exam.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:42 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,720,012 times
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The PE ("Professional Engineer") has nothing to do with colleges or universities.

A couple of bits of information:

College programs in engineering may or may not be accredited. Accreditation is done by ABET, which maintains ties to specific professional engineering associations (electrical, civil mechanical etc). The point of ABET is to put a stamp of approval on a program if it has the appropriate number of professors, appropriate laboratories, appropriate curriculum etc.

Once someone has a degree in engineering they have the option of obtaining a PE. This is done at the state level. The way it works more or less is you take a general engineering exam, and there may or may not be a follow-up exam specific to your field which is managed by the appropriate professional society. Then you wait a few years and if your supervisor is a PE and will sign for you, you get your PE. This pretty much shuts me out of getting a PE by the way as I have never had a supervisor with a PE. Also anytime I've called the state PE board, their voice mailbox is full so I can't even ask someone if there is a way around it. It's a joke as far as I am concerned.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,017 posts, read 15,724,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
it is also the path for personal enlightenment
http://www.dwiblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Binge-Drinking-Consequences.jpg (broken link)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bj+race+college
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,017 posts, read 15,724,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Even people in the above situation make more money than high school grads (as a group).
Fewer job prospects and 4-6 fewer years of on the job training.

Quote:
There is this romantic notion among people here on CD, esp. among the conservatives, that there are all these "trade" jobs going begging for lack of students, and that people can make the big bucks at them. This is untrue.
Haven't met one computer science graduate from this university who doesn't have a good paying job lined up already.

This university has over 100 openings listed on the dept website for outside companies and the job queue is progressively getting larger. My job was found in 72 hours time from when I learned NSF funding was possibly running dry and I'm not even finished my Ph.D. yet.

Last edited by summers73; 10-12-2011 at 08:27 AM..
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,720,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Haven't met one unemployed computer science graduate from this university who doesn't have a good paying job lined up already.
Wait until they get older. Age discrimination is rampant in that field. What good does a degree do you if it appears to be worthless after 20 years? And I am not talking about people who have allowed their skills and knowledge to become stale. It is pure and simple that you can pay kids fresh out of college much less than what you would pay someone who is middle aged. Plus there is a perception that kids somehow have some natural ability with computers.

I'd like to think that when we grant someone college degree, they have something that will last a lifetime and not just 10-20 years.

Plus things go in cycles. I remember very well when a LOT of engineers were laid off in the mid 1990s. Engineering enrollment dropped drastically, - not surprisingly. You can also see the results of kids fresh out of college doing automotive engineering (instead of the older more experienced guys) by the crap put out by American automakers since then.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,017 posts, read 15,724,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Wait until they get older. Age discrimination is rampant in that field. What good does a degree do you if it appears to be worthless after 20 years? And I am not talking about people who have allowed their skills and knowledge to become stale. It is pure and simple that you can pay kids fresh out of college much less than what you would pay someone who is middle aged. Plus there is a perception that kids somehow have some natural ability with computers.
BS. I've been employed for over 10 years in IT and I've worked with a [MOD CUT] ton of people over 50. Should be even easier to keep a job with the lazy millennial generation coming into employment. Usually these people move into becoming something like a senior architect and have developed lots of enterprise app experience. Also some are promoted to project and product managers. It all depends on whether you decide to hide yourself in your corner cubicle or participate in a team environment. The people skills are what keep your job from being outsourceable.

Quote:
I'd like to think that when we grant someone college degree, they have something that will last a lifetime and not just 10-20 years.
They do.

Quote:
Plus things go in cycles. I remember very well when a LOT of engineers were laid off in the mid 1990s. Engineering enrollment dropped drastically, - not surprisingly. You can also see the results of kids fresh out of college doing automotive engineering (instead of the older more experienced guys) by the crap put out by American automakers since then.
I agree with this. The outsourcing fad is dying out due to corporations getting burned from cheap but low quality labor.

Last edited by Ibginnie; 10-13-2011 at 08:13 PM.. Reason: bypassing the filter
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