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Old 10-12-2011, 12:34 PM
 
39,948 posts, read 24,187,055 times
Reputation: 12541

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I already answered that. My exposure to Beck comes from liberals on City Data that start threads like this one.

I read THIS THREAD....

conclusion:
Beck is crazy even though the left has been speaking about violence and using violent retoric extensivly for the last couple of years.

ergo...


do you deny the left has been using violent retoric?

Oh, and I am not defending Beck. I am pointing out the hypocricy and stupidity on the left.
deny facts and claiming the other guy is crazy when the FACTS are liberals are speaking and acting out violently!
Left AND Right have used violent rhetoric. Beck stokes the violence with his wild accusations.

You stoke the violence when you repeatedly assert that "liberals are speaking and acting out violently" and ignore that conservatives are doing the same. The implication that the fault lies only on one side simply increases divisiveness and anger and frustration.

Many people seem to embrace violent imagery and rhetoric these days, and when they do, then rational and reasonable people need to step up and say that this is unacceptable, whoever is doing it, we need constructive debate, not mindless name-calling and finger-pointing.
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:46 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,585,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Left AND Right have used violent rhetoric. Beck stokes the violence with his wild accusations.

You stoke the violence when you repeatedly assert that "liberals are speaking and acting out violently" and ignore that conservatives are doing the same. The implication that the fault lies only on one side simply increases divisiveness and anger and frustration.

Many people seem to embrace violent imagery and rhetoric these days, and when they do, then rational and reasonable people need to step up and say that this is unacceptable, whoever is doing it, we need constructive debate, not mindless name-calling and finger-pointing.
Maybe you can answer what I have been asking......................

1...How many arrested at a Tea Party,
2...How many Conservatives smoking pot in the streets (although many do in the privacy of their home)
3... How many conservatives at a protest having sex instead of protesting
4... how many are going topless at Tea Party events
should I continue with why this protest is nothing about change, it's just the 60's all over again.

If anyone can explain this, it would be very helpful..............Letter from China: Chinese Maoists: “Long Live the Great Wall Street Revolution!” : The New Yorker
We should demand our government return to President Mao’s philosophy, stop privatization, and return to the true beliefs of the Communist Party. Stop practicing Marxism on the stage—with capitalism backstage. Capitalism is a dead end; there is no future for it. Fixing wrongdoings and returning to socialism is the only correct way!

One is tempted to see irony in the next sentence, but it is less a joke, I suspect, than a measure of how muddled Chinese political loyalties are these days: “Chinese government officials, wake up!” the nationalists add. “Take a look at what’s happening on Wall Street! Don’t be swept into the dustbin of history by the people, just as the autumn wind blows away the the First World War, and then “The Beat Generation” after the Second World War. Now, will the young people coming of age after the financial crisis become “The Occupy Generation?
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:53 PM
 
39,948 posts, read 24,187,055 times
Reputation: 12541
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Maybe you can answer what I have been asking......................

1...How many arrested at a Tea Party,
2...How many Conservatives smoking pot in the streets (although many do in the privacy of their home)
3... How many conservatives at a protest having sex instead of protesting
4... how many are going topless at Tea Party events
should I continue with why this protest is nothing about change, it's just the 60's all over again.

If anyone can explain this, it would be very helpful..............Letter from China: Chinese Maoists: “Long Live the Great Wall Street Revolution!” : The New Yorker
We should demand our government return to President Mao’s philosophy, stop privatization, and return to the true beliefs of the Communist Party. Stop practicing Marxism on the stage—with capitalism backstage. Capitalism is a dead end; there is no future for it. Fixing wrongdoings and returning to socialism is the only correct way!

One is tempted to see irony in the next sentence, but it is less a joke, I suspect, than a measure of how muddled Chinese political loyalties are these days: “Chinese government officials, wake up!” the nationalists add. “Take a look at what’s happening on Wall Street! Don’t be swept into the dustbin of history by the people, just as the autumn wind blows away the the First World War, and then “The Beat Generation” after the Second World War. Now, will the young people coming of age after the financial crisis become “The Occupy Generation?
If you have questions, please do your own research.

And whether you recognize it or not, the 60's protests were about CHANGE, so if the current protests are similar to the 60's protests, that does not mean that the current protests are not about change, but just the opposite.

And the article from The New Yorker is a blog from a writer in Beijing, who is commenting on the Chinese Maoists' take on the Wall Street protests, and how turgid Chinese politics cloud reality.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,396,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
If you have questions, please do your own research.

And whether you recognize it or not, the 60's protests were about CHANGE, so if the current protests are similar to the 60's protests, that does not mean that the current protests are not about change, but just the opposite.

And the article from The New Yorker is a blog from a writer in Beijing, who is commenting on the Chinese Maoists' take on the Wall Street protests, and how turgid Chinese politics cloud reality.
You're correct, they're about change. The big question is "do we really want the change that they want?"

While it's a proven fact that at least some if not all of the Occupy events are being planned and run by socialist/communist groups (just look at the web page for the International Communist Current) doesn't that BOTHER anyone? Do these "protesters" even know what would happen if we take the route they're pushing? It may sound like all warm and fuzzy's but if they think they've got nothing now they've not seen poor until communism takes over.
I agree that change needs to occur but socialism/communism? No way.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:02 AM
 
39,948 posts, read 24,187,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
You're correct, they're about change. The big question is "do we really want the change that they want?"

While it's a proven fact that at least some if not all of the Occupy events are being planned and run by socialist/communist groups (just look at the web page for the International Communist Current) doesn't that BOTHER anyone? Do these "protesters" even know what would happen if we take the route they're pushing? It may sound like all warm and fuzzy's but if they think they've got nothing now they've not seen poor until communism takes over.
I agree that change needs to occur but socialism/communism? No way.
The fact is that communism and socialism (two different things) are not illegal or criminal in any way. They are legitimate political positions. What does bother me about any political movement are the people who join in the protests, who don't bother to inform or educate themselves about the issues or about whatever it is that they are protesting.

I don't support communism, nor do I support many other political agendas. But I do believe that people have a right to speak out and to champion their personal perspectives. And I believe the audience has an obligation to educate themselves about what they are hearing. For instance, communism has never truly been put into practice anywhere. Not in the Soviet Union, not in China. Communism is a boogey-man that conservatives scare themselves with, conflating communism with authoritarianism. The problem with that is that many conservatives support authoritarian agendas. That's why many scholars go to great lengths to point out the differences between traditional conservatism, which is more akin libertarianism, versus modern conservatism, which with its close ties to religious conservatism is much more authoritarian in tone.

I don't want the Occupy message to be hi-jacked by communists or anyone else, just as the Tea Party didn't want their message to be hi-jacked by people with political agendas that were related to the Tea Party but not representative of the Tea Party. The messages of unions are related to the Occupy movement, but are not representative. And understanding the distinctions is part of educating one's self, as regards both of these movements as well as any other populist movements that come along.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:25 AM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,585,096 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
If you have questions, please do your own research.

And whether you recognize it or not, the 60's protests were about CHANGE, so if the current protests are similar to the 60's protests, that does not mean that the current protests are not about change, but just the opposite.

And the article from The New Yorker is a blog from a writer in Beijing, who is commenting on the Chinese Maoists' take on the Wall Street protests, and how turgid Chinese politics cloud reality.
Hey didn't mean to offend you, I thought you were more, well let's say in the "middle of thinking". I thought you would be the most practical thinker on this thread, you didn't seem one sided.

Not much research to do, I actually was just looking for "I haven't seen any of this kind of protesting from the conservatives". Guess simple answers, are hard to come by.

There's a way to get your point across, that shouldn't consist of weeks on end protesting. These people are being disrespectful to the business owners. Go Home Now!!

As far as the Mao thing...........should be disturbing that a Chinese Blogger would even compare a protest in America, to Communism, is my point. I don't see Chinese blogs comparing the Tea Party to the likes of Mao.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:36 AM
 
39,948 posts, read 24,187,055 times
Reputation: 12541
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Hey didn't mean to offend you, I thought you were more, well let's say in the "middle of thinking". I thought you would be the most practical thinker on this thread, you didn't seem one sided.

Not much research to do, I actually was just looking for "I haven't seen any of this kind of protesting from the conservatives". Guess simple answers, are hard to come by.

There's a way to get your point across, that shouldn't consist of weeks on end protesting. These people are being disrespectful to the business owners. Go Home Now!!

As far as the Mao thing...........should be disturbing that a Chinese Blogger would even compare a protest in America, to Communism, is my point. I don't see Chinese blogs comparing the Tea Party to the likes of Mao.
I appreciate that you were looking for, "I haven't seen any of this kind of protesting from conservatives," but it wouldn't be true. I've seen arrests at conservative protests, and I've seen people at conservative protests carrying weapons, which I think involves intimidation. People who are passionate, whatever their politics, sometimes cross the line in their behavior. I think reasonable people need to make the point when behavior crosses the line, but I also appreciate the passion and interest that's involved in political protest.

I don't agree with you that protests should have time limits. That, to me, is an infringement on freedom of speech.

As for the Mao thing, the point of the article by the blogger wasn't that the blogger was comparing a protest in America to Communism. The blogger wasn't doing that at all. The blogger was pointing out that news in China is tightly controlled by the state, so that the information that the Chinese people are getting about the protests is inaccurate. So inaccurate that Chinese Maoists are confused enough about the Occupy movement or the Tea Party movement to compare either to Maoism protests.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:30 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,585,096 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
DC at the Ridge I don't agree with you that protests should have time limits. That, to me, is an infringement on freedom of speech.
What about the businesses they're infringing upon. Or are those people rich, they don't need to sell from their stores. Do you think the kid making $7.00 an hour, minds cleaning up the bathroom at his/her work after the mob has cleared.


One day, a trader on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Adam Sarzen, a decade or so older than many of the protesters, came to Zuccotti Park seemingly just to shake his head. “Look at these kids, sitting here with their Apple computers,” he said.“Apple, one of the biggest monopolies in the world. It trades at $400 a share. Do they even know that?” http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/ny...-aim.html?_r=1


Not to mention the cell phones and Blackberry's, they all use.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:34 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
65,933 posts, read 33,410,138 times
Reputation: 14081
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Maybe you can answer what I have been asking......................

1...How many arrested at a Tea Party,
2...How many Conservatives smoking pot in the streets (although many do in the privacy of their home)
3... How many conservatives at a protest having sex instead of protesting
4... how many are going topless at Tea Party events
should I continue with why this protest is nothing about change, it's just the 60's all over again.


Hey, just because #1 happens, doesn't mean #2-4 are not freedom and liberty at the highest level. Now, civilized would not be in the definition.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:43 PM
 
523 posts, read 379,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
Huh?? Beck directly states about OWS protestors: "They will come for you and drag you into the streets and kill you."
I would hate to think the right are that brainwashed to deflect of this asinine and hate filled rate, let alone condone it...
Because the insane left will unless someone stops them
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