Has socialism ever been successful? Examples, please? (generations, Mexicans, regime)

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by steven_h

Just Arizona: Arizona state treasurer Dean Martin says his state loses between $1.3 billion and $2.5 billion each year on illegal immigrants. In addition to the fiscal costs of incarcerating and educating illegal immigrants and their families

That is the same Dean Martin who was running for Governor as a conservative Republican? You of course have all the details behind those numbers right?

2008 data:

$11 billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

Source? None of that could be payment to legal children could it?

Illegal households only pay about one-third the amount of federal taxes that non-illegal households pay.
Illegal households create a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion a year. If given amnesty, this number could grow to more than $29 billion.
$1.9 billion dollars a year is spent on food-assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
$1.6 billion is spent on the federal prison and court system for illegal aliens.
$2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
About 21 percent of the population of U.S. prisons is classified as “noncitizens” from Mexico, Colombia, Cuba and the Dominican Republic. About 5 percent is listed as “unknown.”

It is illegal to pay WIC to illegal aliens. Sue your government.


Illegal aliens don't get Medicaid.

Federal prison system does not track illegal versus legal aliens.

Hey this is easy...you obviously don't know much about this stuff.

USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) is the tenth and final Nimitz-class supercarrier of the United States Navy.[1] and was completed in 2009 at a cost of $6.2 billion.

Make that all 10 of our Nimitz class carriers would cover the illegals suck on our system. That's 10 carriers a year.

One carrier will easily do it with lots left over after we get rid of the silliness.

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by Kirdik

No agenda. I'm just saying that we have plenty of socialism and it's destroying our economy.

Socialism hasn't destroyed America........ Corporate greed and corruption has destroyed America.... You know that good ole Capitalism!

[Skinny Puppy]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Socialism hasn't destroyed America........ Corporate greed and corruption has destroyed America.... You know that good ole Capitalism!

Socialism doesn't exist in the USA for it to destroy it. Sorry, progressive taxes do not equate Socialism.

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by steven_h

Do corporate paychecks go to the government first and then disbursed to the employee? Several people I've spoken with said yes.
Well those "several people" do NOT know what they are talking about or just plain...... LYING! I have worked for corporations in the UK and none of them have sent their paychecks to the Govt and then had it dispersed to the employee. The Corporation pays the Employee and then pays anual tax...sends in their tax returns twice a year as would anyone else.
You've been a social welfare state for more than 140 years. Any massive social dole is mishandling public funds in my opinion. Of course, if you get a check from the government I guess to you it's money well spent.
Public funds are for the benefit of the public and NOT for the benefit of huge corporations as in the USA.

I've not raved. I've only re-stated what people have told me. I'm told they aren't credible, they are whingers, and any number of other flames with even less substantiation than the people they are flaming. You do the logic mind maze on that.
I am a Brit and now live in the USA and the UK.
Believe me there are as many whingers here in the USA as in the UK.
big DIFFERENCE between the UK and the USA.......... Americans really DO have many things to whinge about... The most expensive and probably one of the worst health systems in the entire World. Poorer education than many third world countries. Children now starving and suffering with male nutrition. Banks and "Fat Cats" corruption destroying America etc etc etc etc etc.
Get real here and STOP believing 'hearsay'

The thread is "does socialism work". I conveyed why it doesn't and presented links and text showing that the examples used "for" were wrong. I guess it tweaked a few nerves. My apologies.

Socialism and Capitalism working hand in hand WORKS. America already has Socialism but unfortunately it is only for the Wealthy!

[BruSan]

Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy

Socialism doesn't exist in the USA for it to destroy it. Sorry, progressive taxes do not equate Socialism.

Well let's see; do you have welfare? - check.
Do you have health care? - check.
Do you provide government funding for education? - check.
Do you provide food stamps? - check.
Do you provide education to illegal aliens? - check.
Do you insulate and indemnify private corporations from failure? - check.
Do you insulate and indemnify financial institutions from failure? -check.

Ooopsy; but have to say, you're every bit as socialistic as many other countries are accused of being by the nimrods on here! You're gonna have a tough uphill slog convincing some on here that all of those descriptors they use to describe many other countries as socialistic don't, in the instance of the US of A, fit the mold.

[Kirdik]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Well Said!
Not really sure where some on here get their info from regarding Europe or in fact any other Country outside the USA, considering that most Americans do NOT have a passport and have never even left their State let alone the USA. They seem to believe biased media........ Oh well no fool like a old fool who only has media as a guide.
If anyone needs to see how succesful Socialism is then go to Germany or Australia or New Zealand ........... God the list goes on and on and on.

Socialism costs money. If the government gives something to someone it has to take that from someone else.
I've lived in NZ a few years and it didn't strike me as a more advanced country than the US.

[Skinny Puppy]

Originally Posted by BruSan

Well let's see; do you have welfare? - check.
Do you have health care? - check.
Do you provide government funding for education? - check.
Do you provide food stamps? - check.
Do you provide education to illegal aliens? - check.
Do you insulate and indemnify private corporations from failure? - check.
Do you insulate and indemnify financial institutions from failure? -check.

Ooopsy; but have to say, you're every bit as socialistic as many other countries are accused of being by the nimrods on here! You're gonna have a tough uphill slog convincing some on here that all of those descriptors they use to describe many other countries as socialistic don't, in the instance of the US of A, fit the mold.

Do you have a classless society, which is the cornerstone of socialism - NO

The examples you gave have absolutely nothing to do with Socialism. Did Marx or Engels touch on education for illegal immigrants? I guess I missed that chapter. Must have been the same chapter when they discuss food stamps.

[Randomstudent]

Originally Posted by nep321

With all this Occupy Wall Street protesting going on, it seems that these people are advocating a more socialist government. But, has socialism ever worked over the long term, to the point that it would be better than capitalist U.S. policy? Can someone give me examples of successful socialist countries that have lasted for the LONG TERM and/or will likely last for the LONG TERM? Should the U.S. envy other socialist countries? Does it really work better as these Occupy Wall Street people believe it would? Honestly, it seems like the Tea Party of the left.

Enlighten me.

Yes in Israel. From 1948-1969 the socialist party of Israel called Mapai made that country bloom. They held off the Arabs in two wars and developed the country, in part by expanding the successful Kibbutz movement. They were also very successful in absorbing the 800,000 Jews who were expelled from Arab countries after the 1948 war. Under the Socialist party refuge camps were turned into thriving cities like Kiyrat Shamona, and Sderot and existing cities like Tel Aviv boomed. All in all socialism definitely played an important role in creating the modern state of Israel.

[js1mom]

Originally Posted by olecapt

We do. We don't give welfare to illegal and we require five years for a legal immigrant to get any benefits.



Utter nonsense. No benefits and the few things they get are a drop in the bucket.

The only real cost on the welfare side is some small aid to legal children who have as much right to it as an other American.

They get emergency room care...not paid for by any government effectively...and elementary school.

All together I doubt it is even detectable in the overall scheme of things.

Build one less aircraft carrier and it is all paid for.

Utter hogwash! You cannot POSSIBLY think that those are the only benefits we give to illegals or "amnestied" illegals in this country??? And that it costs only the price of an aircraft carrier each year??? They can receive subsidized or free rents, food, medical care, education (even college!!), and some are also eligible for social security benefits!!! This does not even count the costs of illegal immigration "control" measures (ineffective as they are), jobs lost to legal immigrants and citizens, or incarceration/ deportation costs when they are actually caught and punished for their crime[s]! (As a multitude of other crimes must be commited when on the "run" in a country that you snuck into--- I.D. falsification/stealing, illegal/unlicensed driving, driving without insurance, fleeing from the law, unpaid taxes, etc., etc., etc...)

And to grant citizenship to a child illegally born in this country due to their parents crimes is positively ludicrous! It's like saying if I commit a major bank heist and spend the next 15 years giving my daughter a life of luxury with my ill-begotten gains, that she should be able to keep the house, the cars, the investments, and anything else I purchased for her with the funds because it's not HER fault that I stole the money. After all--- she's a victim as much as the bank, right? And I agree that she would, in fact, also be a victim--- but the fact would remain that the money belongs to the bank and the wrong MUST be righted. It would be MY shame, and MY victimization of my own child, and none others. In fact-- most citizens would probably be out for my blood for doing such a horrid thing to my own child. But I won't see it--- after all--- I was a victim, too... I grew up poor and just wanted better for my child. My intentions were honorable, right??? In fact, I DESERVED that money and shame on anyone who says otherwise!!! You're just prejudiced against people who grew up poor and want more for their children. Shame on you! (And the truth is--- for the most part, I don't "blame" the illegals for trying to get here. I may just do the same thing in their case- who knows? But I DO blame our government for not only selective law enforcement-- but for actually making commission of those crimes in America a cakewalk... And I dam[n] sure blame them for whittling away at the quality of life for me, my child, and all other law abiding citizens of this country in preference, and deference, to criminals.

So, does socialism work? Maybe.

Does "blind" governmental stupidity and misappropriation of TAXPAYER funds? No way!

[Kirdik]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Socialism hasn't destroyed America........ Corporate greed and corruption has destroyed America.... You know that good ole Capitalism!

Corporate greed?

Fannie Mae
Freddie Mac
Medicare
Medicaid
Food Stamps
Section 8
Social Security