Has socialism ever been successful? Examples, please? (Putin, Israeli, ethical)

[seacreature99]

Ha ha ha!
South London? You do realise parts of South London are the UK equivalent of the South Bronx? I wouldn't walk around Peckham, Stockwell or Brixton without an armed guard! I certainly wouldn't live there, my God!!!!
So far you pick Blackpool which is a very depressed seaside town similar to Atlantic city but without the casinos and worse weather, and South London (like Chicago's South Side).

I could name huge swathes of the UK which are not like that. I often stay with friends in South Devon and it's like heaven on earth there.
The fact remains 80%-90% of the UK is safe and still largely prosperous.

As for the riots in August. I agree they were disgusting, however again, they were largely confined to inner cities. Are you telling me other countries don't suffer riots? I remember lots in the US!
South Central LA, Cincinatti, Benton Harbour etc. and that's only the ones I've heard about!

Originally Posted by steven_h

So in other words people have to live in a certain area of the UK to count as credible?

I'll have to remind my partner that he isn't a part of the UK as he pays his VAT taxes to the UK. That is semantics, it is a part of the UK in reality. But this is far off topic.

For example, one of my buddies in South London was kidnapped last month. He was beaten and with a concusion, managed to pull a can of mace on his attackers. When the police showed up... they arrested him for having pepper spray.

I just pointed him to your post. His response was LOLOLOLOLOL

You live in a land of CCTV all under the misguided belief you are safer for them. Cameras only help in solving a crime after the fact. Home invasions, smash and grabs, and violent crime is at all time highs in the UK. The cameras are more likely to be used to monitor law abiding citizens, rather than the thugs who will just go do a home invasion where there are no cameras. These facts aren't something that can be rationalised away.

Another partner in the UK has suffered through two sibling suicides in the last three years. One of these brothers was a banister and a retired member of parliament. I'm close to several people in the UK, who have had similar issues. Hence, my mentioning that the middle aged seem to be in a bleak frame of mind. They must be part of those "whingers" you talk about. BTW, would a "whinger" be the equivalent to a conservative here?

I guess there are a few people unhappy over there. Not all, of course, but maybe one or two.

[Grim Reader]

It is quite true. The UK has bad areas, just as the US does. Not quite as bad, but still bad.

And the US has nearly twice the suicide rate of the UK.

[seacreature99]

I know!
I think some Americans (and actually a lot of British people) need to think for themselves instead of just swallowing blaytant mistruths and sensationalist rubbish they get from the media.
Apparently a lot of US citizens are now afraid to visit Britain because of fears over crime! Yes, like you're really going to get mugged walking around Windsor Castle!

Originally Posted by geeoro

Well Said!
Not really sure where some on here get their info from regarding Europe or in fact any other Country outside the USA, considering that most Americans do NOT have a passport and have never even left their State let alone the USA. They seem to believe biased media........ Oh well no fool like a old fool who only has media as a guide.
If anyone needs to see how succesful Socialism is then go to Germany or Australia or New Zealand ........... God the list goes on and on and on.

[seacreature99]

Suicide rates don't mean anything really, other than having long dark winters and poor weather.
The countries with the lowest suicide rates are invariably sunny and hot third world nations. Everyone feels happier when it's sunny and warm.

Originally Posted by Grim Reader

It is quite true. The UK has bad areas, just as the US does. Not quite as bad, but still bad.

And the US has nearly twice the suicide rate of the UK.

[Grim Reader]

Originally Posted by seacreature99

Suicide rates don't mean anything really, other than having long dark winters and poor weather.
The countries with the lowest suicide rates are invariably sunny and hot third world nations. Everyone feels happier when it's sunny and warm.

Well, not really.

Suicide rates in OECD countries (http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/02/02/20/innvutv_en/tab-2011-05-05-05-en.html - broken link)

I suppose you could make out a slight connection, but other factors seem much more important. South Korea has the highest rate in the OECD, with Scandinavia and the USA in the middle, and the UK near the bottom.

On a world rate, it seems that eastern europe groups towards the top, with the Caribbean and South America towards the bottom, but limited reporting makes this unreliable.

[summers73]

Originally Posted by seacreature99

Suicide rates don't mean anything really, other than having long dark winters and poor weather.
The countries with the lowest suicide rates are invariably sunny and hot third world nations. Everyone feels happier when it's sunny and warm.

That is a short sighted way of looking at it. Hungary and E. Germany had the highest suicide rate in the 70's and 80's, and guess what? They were socialist! What about Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania today? They're colder and darker than either Germany or Hungary. Why aren't they off'ing themselves at the same rate?

[Grim Reader]

(Note: reposted because I put in a link from a different discussion, and its too late to edit it. This one should be right)

Suicide rates in OECD countries

I suppose you could make out a slight connection, but other factors seem much more important. South Korea has the highest rate in the OECD, with Scandinavia and the USA in the middle, and the UK near the bottom.

On a world rate, it seems that eastern europe groups towards the top, with the Caribbean and South America towards the bottom, but limited reporting makes this unreliable.

[Frank_Carbonni]

Originally Posted by olecapt

Free university? Stipend for the unemployed practically forever, Free and exceptionally good medicine?

I don't think so...

Ever seen a Scandanavian jail?

Different level of socialism entirely.

The quality of Scandinavian prisons has little to do with how "socialist" they are. Cuba is socialist and their prisons are something very different.

Also, no matter how nice a prison is 5-30% of the inmate population (depending on the country and prison) dread when the guard shouts "Lights out" if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by United_Caps_Skins_Fan

Agree with the above, but in particular the bold part. You can also take that a step further. Most people on the political far right also seem to think that the nazis were also socialist. They were not. Not even close. Nazis were extreme far right wing fascists. The nazi party liked to label themselves as 'socialist' to appeal to the masses to gain power and approval. Once in power, they quickly showed their true colors, which were that of an extreme right wing fascist regime. The nazis, and their party were anything BUT socialists. The fact is, that the nazis and their ultra fascism were, and are, on the extreme far RIGHT. So far right they make ultra neocons in our country look almost liberal.

The same goes for the point made in the bold part of the quote above. Soviet communism was not, and never will be socialism, plain and simple, even though they liked to use the word "socialist" in their name.

The Nazi party's economic policies were strictly Keynesian. They weren't Communists, but they weren't pro-market libertarians.

[workingclasshero]

Has socialism ever been successful

depends on your defination of successful

socialism DEMANDS everyone contibute...so all the welfare LEACHES will someday be EXECUTED
socialism DEMANDS that you conform..so conform or be exterminated
socialism demands you do what's right for society...so having a ""carousel"" (nei logan's run) where you CONFORM to society and WILLINGLY are EXTERMINATED is MANDATED
socialism (nei 1984) DEMANDS you turn in any violaters (ie attack.watch)
socialism is anti-fredom...socialism OUTLAWS fatty foods, salt, sugars, pepper...(nei demolution man):
.....[A]nything not good for you is bad, hence, illegal. Alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, meat......
.....Bad language, child play, gasoline, uneducational toys, and anything spicy. Abortion is also illegal. But, then again so is pregnancy, if you don't have a license.....

as Dennis leary so said:A]ccording to Cocteau's plan, I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal?....I've seen the progressive liberal socialist future. You know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin, sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing, "I'm an Oscar Meyer wiener."





socialism is an open door to totalarism
You live up top, you live Cocteau's way: what he wants, when he wants, how he wants. Your other choice, come down here, maybe starve to death.

[noexcuseforignorance]

Originally Posted by nep321

With all this Occupy Wall Street protesting going on, it seems that these people are advocating a more socialist government. But, has socialism ever worked over the long term, to the point that it would be better than capitalist U.S. policy? Can someone give me examples of successful socialist countries that have lasted for the LONG TERM and/or will likely last for the LONG TERM? Should the U.S. envy other socialist countries? Does it really work better as these Occupy Wall Street people believe it would? Honestly, it seems like the Tea Party of the left.

Enlighten me.

Social security, Medicare, the VA, Unemployment Insurance. You're not enlightened.