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Old 08-18-2015, 06:30 AM
 
Location: north central Ohio
8,665 posts, read 5,519,168 times
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I think capitalism is the most corrupt/unfair economic system on earth, which creates the biggest gap between rich and poor, and squeezes out the middle class. Capitalists are far, far, far too....'self-centered' the hell with everybody else,['I just want to get all I can for myself', mentality]!
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Inland Northwest
1,793 posts, read 1,378,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
some of them are socialists. others are anarchists. others are advocating a capitalist government that caters less to existing capital owners. (banks, hedge funds, corporations)



Sure. Millions of Americans have used Medicare and Social Security, which are essentially socialist programs... especially Medicare.

Generally speaking, Americans consider this socialist Medicare program to be better than the market solution of encouraging people to die once they retire.



Denmark is a successful example of a heavily socialist economy. Canada has a successful hybrid socialist-capitalist system, similar to the US.



No.



Work better than what? Our current system, like most governments, is a hybrid of many ideologies. We aren't pure, market-driven capitalism.



70% of Republicans support Medicare, ergo, 70% of Republicans are socialists. Most of these Republicans would kick and scream at the top of their lungs if you called them a socialist, but that's exactly what they are supporting..

For me, I try to stick to reality. I think Medicare is tolerable, and I'm going to be paying for the boomers' Medicare, and therefore I have made my peace with socialism, and I do not demonize it. I think anyone who uses Medicare and supports "Small Government" or is "anti-socialism" is a huge hypocrite.

I think socialism and capitalism are both extremely useful ideologies, and I do not demonize either of them. I think demonizing socialism comes from the cold war, and from people don't differentiate between socialism and Soviet communism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
No. Quite untrue. Scandanavia is vastly more socialistic than the US. Schooling, medicine, welfare...you name it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Free university? Stipend for the unemployed practically forever, Free and exceptionally good medicine?

I don't think so...

Ever seen a Scandanavian jail?

Different level of socialism entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
It seems to be a uniquely American error to believe social benefits equals socialism. From the American viewpoint, social policies and capitalism become points on the same line, and more of one must necessarily mean less of the other.

For example, Norway has universal health care, free university education, 5 weeks vacation, a year of maternity/paternity leave and a host of other social benefits. Denmark has similar benefits. From the US point of view, this is pretty socialist. Yet both countries have a ferocious capitalist sector with higher levels of entrepeneurship than America.

To other countries, social benefits are political settings, socialism and capitalism are economic systems. You can in fact regulate both independently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321 View Post
Many people are saying that the Scandanavian countries (i.e. Norway, Sweden, Finland) are more successful than the U.S., because of their socialist policies. I have explained this to my father, but he responds by saying that it will be short-term and won't last much longer than a decade or two. My father watches FOX News 24/7, listens to Rush Limbaugh and hates Obama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Norway seems to be a success story.
Nation & World | Oil-rich Norway guards its wealth | Seattle Times Newspaper

But they have been blessed with oil weath and a benevolent management thereof.



But I'm not so sure this is a long term stable deal. What happens when the current generation of benevolent leaders retires?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Totally not on the same level as Scandinavia and Norway. No, not at all.
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Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
That racist xenophobic whiteyville called Sweden.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
When I was in school 45 years ago I figured our country would have a stable population as our generation dropped our birth rate to replacement levels or below. That would have provided employment for everyone at increasing wages as the supply of workers stabilized or dropped. Instead the corporatists’ that own our politicians and run our country for their own benefit saw this coming and opened the doors to immigrants from all over the world to keep the population of workers growing faster than the jobs. The result was a stunning growth in the stock market and a slow slide into genteel poverty for the workers already here. This has only been compounded by the replacement of industrial jobs with automated machinery. The effect is the same as replacing paid workers with slaves only the machines are not alive. They only have to be bought with borrowed money and fed cheap electricity. They are ideal employees and even better than human wage slaves. They are, along with unlimited immigration, just another nail in the coffin of a prosperous working class.


The Swedes also figured this out but their industrialists were willing to pay higher wages instead of allowing immigration. They were satisfied with substituting machines for labor where ever they could and to share the productivity with their customers in their own country. Smart move.

This is a form of socialism operating in an intensely capitalistic country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Has socialism ever been successful?

Norway has about 4% unemployment rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seacreature99 View Post
I do actually agree with the first point. I think Social Democracies in Norway, Sweden, Finland etc. have been very successful, because up until recently they were inhabited purely by Nordic people who all conformed to the model and didn't abuse the generosity of the state.
In this case it works.

Once you get a large group of people who abuse it, it all falls to bits. This is definately the case in the UK. We have an increasing group who totally don't pull their weight and seem to think the world owes them a living!
It's like a living in a shared house, it only works when everyone chips in and shares out the chores. If one person always ends up left doing the washing up they quickly get pissed off and decide not to do any chores whatsoever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Norway has a 3% unemployment rate and does well in all of the indexes that measure happiness and well being. The country is run by socialists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Scandanavian countries have done quite well under it. Norway's economy grew in 2009 while ours was sinking, and it's growing now. They also come out in all the polls with better living standards than we do. Note that Norway is not a Communist country, but one that combines aspects of capitalism and socialism. They recognize that each on its own has drawbacks that have to be balanced against each other. Oh, and by the way, the setup of their economies and societies has nothing to do with any OWS protester.

Other "socialist" countries in Europe are in trouble, largely because their EU concept was not well thought out. But clearly, America - which is not so "socialist" - isn't very successful these days, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Norway has oil wealth and has been blessed with leadership in recent years that has not squandered it. But according to this it has nothing to do with socialism (or capitalism)
Norway Thrives by Going Against the Tide - NYTimes.com



Perhaps more likely the lingering influence of Lutheranism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Also from that NYT article:
Norway has one of the strongest social safety nets anywhere. Medical coverage is government provided as is generous unemployment benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speakingtruth View Post
Norway is also sitting on a bed of oil and has a very small population and uses that oil money (its the worlds fifth largest oil exporter) to care of of its citizens.

Yikes...this one will be hard for you to rebut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Interesting article on Norway, tax records available as a public record, Greece should take them up on that.

In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism | Inc.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito View Post
Norway. For many years it had a small-enough population that socialism was really effective and as far as I know, still is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Germany

Sweden

Norway

All doing better that us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Switzerland. Sweden. Either or.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlarson21 View Post
Denmark norway sweden canada germany uk australia to name some. Our system is different from most capitalistic nations and it works less well than the majority
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I'm sooo jealous! I wish I lived in Norway, or Denmark. I can't imagine how nice it would be to have a family there.
Oh yeah. I'm Swedish and Norwegian. Loving this, so the keys to a successful country appear to be that you need a lot more people like me and my 5'10" blond wife and our three blond boys. Did you see that list of top 10 countries? Good grief.
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:21 PM
 
Location: north central Ohio
8,665 posts, read 5,519,168 times
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Seems to prove that social democracies are far, far better than the U.S. brand of corrupt Capitalism! They are also 'Secular' societies Society without god is better!
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,368 posts, read 9,417,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
You know, I really don't see that. Europe was a ruin after WW2, and has been catching up a little bit every decade since. And is doing quite well at the moment, economic troubles nonewithstanding.

The whole "you envy us" meme is pretty destructive. Its like "My kid is WONDERFUL! You are just saying he has problems because you are envious of how much better he is!"

Sometimes you need to take a realistic look at things. Honey, the kid is 15, weights 250 pounds, is deveoping type 2 diabetes already, and failing in his classes. The kid needs to shape up. Closing you eyes to thats is destroying the kid.
Actually the "we're better than you Americans and you are all hicks with guns" is destructive far more than defending ourselves AGAINST such arrogant nonsense.
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Old 08-18-2015, 11:05 PM
 
7,302 posts, read 3,164,059 times
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People conflate socialism and communism. True socialism isn't necessarily a problem when used judiciously. The problem is that it is a ready back-door for communism when communists sneak in their social policies by calling them "socialism". Contrary to popular belief, socialism is solely economic in its pure form. Thus, any manner of government can make use of it when appropriate. Conversely, communism is solely social policy in its pure form and will always consciously lead to community and family destruction. People, in general, have to better learn to identify the tree by its fruit. Just because society tells you that it is "capitalist", "free", "socialist", etc...does not make it so. Identify the fruit.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:14 AM
 
Location: north central Ohio
8,665 posts, read 5,519,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1 View Post
People conflate socialism and communism. True socialism isn't necessarily a problem when used judiciously. The problem is that it is a ready back-door for communism when communists sneak in their social policies by calling them "socialism". Contrary to popular belief, socialism is solely economic in its pure form. Thus, any manner of government can make use of it when appropriate. Conversely, communism is solely social policy in its pure form and will always consciously lead to community and family destruction. People, in general, have to better learn to identify the tree by its fruit. Just because society tells you that it is "capitalist", "free", "socialist", etc...does not make it so. Identify the fruit.

In that case[see bolded] .....then America has become pure communist! Our communities and families have certainly been destroyed since the 50's,with it taking two paychecks to support a family, latchkey kids that are raising themselves, and might as well be orphans!
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,368 posts, read 9,417,482 times
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As always, the tiny Scandinavian countries are pointed to because they top happiness polls by mostly liberal media hacks who wish the results to prove out their ideology. I wish it to be therefore it must be.

The following link is to an article from a completely unbiased author in the UK:
Dark lands: the grim truth behind the 'Scandinavian miracle' | World news | The Guardian

Now mainstream media sources are jumping in to try and set the record (truth) straight:
Sorry, liberals, Scandinavian countries aren’t utopias | New York Post

One can be forgiven for wondering whether there’s something fishy about the so-called Nordic Miracle itself. Are the Scandinavians really good and prosperous and happy, or do crude measures of goodness, prosperity, and happiness play to their strengths? In “The Almost Nearly Perfect People” (Picador), Michael Booth, a travel journalist, scrutinizes the success of the Scandinavian brand. He points out that many people who speak glowingly of Sweden’s welfare state have never actually been to Sweden, let alone seen its most famous housing project. This “blind spot” has produced facile assessments, Booth believes. He seeks to reappraise the Nordic peoples by observing their behavior in the wild.

Do Scandinavians Have It All Figured Out? - The New Yorker

Life in this country (US) is being turned upside down by fringe extremists, with a really bad case of "the grass is greener in the other countries" syndrome. The irony is that in their attempt to social engineer their ideological views into the populous, they're sucking the life out of this country and dividing our citizens.

Liberals are cow towing to groups like Black Lives Matter who consider the statement "all lives matter" to be racist. So they are basically racists telling anyone who doesn't lockstep with them... racists.

The PC (Progressive Crazies) can't bring themselves to call a terrorist, a terrorist; unless, of course, it's a white Christian (rolling eyes). Nor can they call an illegal alien, illegal.

They love to change words around to sound nicer. It's like planting grass on a garbage heap... it might be greener but it still stinks.

They call themselves "progressive" when in reality they are regressive. as they attempt to force EVERYONE to bend over to their radical ideals. If anyone dissents, they begin the chastising and name calling. It's right out of the Alinsky handbook.

What puzzles me is how backassward their notions are, even in the face of recent history, which reveals just how badly such BS plays out.

Such wishful notions of bliss, as you are led to that gate... only to find it's the door to hell.
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Old 08-19-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Long Island
31,039 posts, read 17,929,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_love_autumn View Post
I think capitalism is the most corrupt/unfair economic system on earth, which creates the biggest gap between rich and poor, and squeezes out the middle class. Capitalists are far, far, far too....'self-centered' the hell with everybody else,['I just want to get all I can for myself', mentality]!
socialism creates two classes...the rich elite masters and the poor living on the scraps of welfare serfs

capitalism creates a middleclass
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:03 PM
 
1 posts, read 748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Just because socialism has caused the murder of 100 million people and has never worked throughout history is no reason not to try it again.
Do you mean communism sir? or perhaps Christianity?

However, socialism is very successful in Nordic European countries.
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:09 PM
 
18,317 posts, read 8,665,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylly View Post
I can name a couple: Cuba has been very sucessful, -for Fidel Castro. China has been very successful, -for the communist party.
If you can make everybody else your slave, you will be very, very, very successful.
Those are not socialist countries. Those are dictatorships.
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