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Old 10-16-2011, 07:25 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,362,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
You suffer from the erroneous assumption that the only people who pay taxes are those employed. You neglect retirees that must pay on their pensions and interest income. You also neglect the young who must file when they earn interest too or have deductions from weekend and summer jobs.

I can't believe the right-wing reactionaries think it's really important to tax the few hundred dollars my daughter earned as a camp councilor.

You also invent that silly unemployment rate. If a retiree chooses to not work because they worked long enough and are old and sick, there is no reason to count them in the UE rate.
None of that goes to anything I wrote. Who are you suppose to be responding to?
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Old 10-16-2011, 07:52 AM
 
66,240 posts, read 30,169,021 times
Reputation: 8607
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The whole issue is ridiculous. The 47% number sounds big but represent only about 2.5% of total national income.
BS! 51% of earners DO NOT earn only 2.5% of the income. IRS data has the bottom 50% at 12.5%.
(Table 1: The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data)

Add more to that for another percent. And there is no evidence whatsoever that it's only the bottom 51% who pay no federal income tax, so the percentage of income would be even higher.

Why do you feel the need to lie?

A flat tax ensures that EVERY income earner pays their proportionately fair share. I see nothing wrong with that. Only freeloaders would object to that.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:07 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,851,645 times
Reputation: 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
If you write a check to the IRS every April, or if you get a refund for an amount less than what was taken out of you check, then you pay income taxes. I have very serious doubts that it's 53% anyway. Probably more like 80% of the population that pays income taxes
Actually, no.

The top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2009 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment--which comes from the taxes paid in by the rest of us.

A flat tax ensures that EVERYONE pays their fair share and that the tax burden is not unfairly borne by a certain segment of the population.
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Old 10-16-2011, 11:04 AM
 
17,027 posts, read 9,525,549 times
Reputation: 5701
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsunegames View Post
Lies. Everyone pays taxes. Practically everything has a tax, 47% don't pay federal income tax because their incomes are so slow, but they pay taxes.

We are the 53 Percent Vs the 99 Percent

We are the 53 Percent Vs the 99 Percent - YouTube


You forgot the part that some of the 47% not only get everything back that they paid out of their paychecks but many get more than that back on top of it.


Another form of welfare.
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:30 PM
 
6,791 posts, read 7,093,845 times
Reputation: 6970
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Another lame excuse. The percentage of income earners paying NO federal income tax has been increasing for years. The leech class has been growing.
What about recession-induced decline in incomes do you not understand. In 2009, unemployment was at its highest level in decades and rising sharply, and incomes were falling. Income tax liabilities are designed to adjust to these cyclical factors, rising when the economy is strong and falling when it is weak; this automatic adjustment helps to stabilize the economy by cushioning the drop in people’s after-tax incomes — and thus their spending — during a downturn. One consequence of the economic downturn was a sharp decline in both federal and state tax receipts, as millions of workers lost their jobs or had their work hours reduced. For many Americans, the loss of income meant that while they owed federal income taxes in 2008, they did not in 2009. Just because people don't pay FIT in one year doesn't mean they never do, many of those people have paid FIT, and will again pay it when their incomes increase, and they find new jobs.

What about falling incomes do you not understand? Are so bitter and angry that you want to punish the poorest who who work hard to stay afloat in this horrible economy, and those who are suffering a temporary set back and will be paying in the near future, and insult them on top of it? DISGUSTING! We all pay based on our income, the low income earners are not cheating or stealing. Every penny of their income that they have after taxes, and they pay a lot, (FIT is just one tax) goes into the economy that supports the high earners, in a capitalist consumer economy there is no greater contribution than working for low wages, and spending all of your income.

Last edited by detshen; 10-16-2011 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:46 PM
 
6,791 posts, read 7,093,845 times
Reputation: 6970
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
That's "federal income tax". Why the hell are you so anal about federal income tax and insistent that if you don't pay that particular tax then you're a freeloader? Ever hear of other federal taxes like the payroll tax and such? Also state and local taxes (or do they only count when Sean Hannity's paying them?)

Because they love conservative talking points that allow them to blame all the countries problems on the working classes. It's pathetic obsession, but who cares this is a silly internet forum, any fool can post, intelligent people can ignore them because they understand that the working classes play a huge role in supporting the highest income earners by spending all their income on businesses and products that keep them wealthy. My business is what it is, and my income is high because working people support it, I show gratitude, they throw insults, it's sickening how shortsighted and prone to tunnel vision some Americans are.

There are also federal excise taxes which most pay.

Last edited by detshen; 10-16-2011 at 03:03 PM..
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,326,058 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
Because they are bitter and angry, and love conservative talking points that allow them to blame all the countries problems on the working classes. It's pathetic obsession, but who cares they are just internet posters, intelligent people can ignore them.
Because in case you didn't notice the Fed is spending billions more than it takes in and it's source of revenue is Federal Income Taxes.

Duh....who will pay for all these Federal Programs if less than 1/2 the country pays Federal Income tax ?
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:33 PM
 
6,791 posts, read 7,093,845 times
Reputation: 6970
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Because in case you didn't notice the Fed is spending billions more than it takes in and it's source of revenue is Federal Income Taxes.

Duh....who will pay for all these Federal Programs if less than 1/2 the country pays Federal Income tax ?

As I have said before, there is certainly a need for tax reform, and spending reform, but not to a simple flat tax. Increasing taxes without raising incomes on those who already spend their entire income supporting American businesses is only going to hurt our economy, destroy the working classes, hurt the middle classes, and hurt the high upper middle classes through loss of revenue, the only ones who truly benefit from that plan are the very wealthy. When a family is budgeted down to the penny, a tiny increase will destroy them, and can push them to need real welfare which is not what Americans workers want, no one has a stronger work ethic than the US working class. Just because a simple percentage flat tax is some peoples idea of fair doesn't make it truly fair, or in any way a good idea for any but the very wealthy.

And no matter what reform people want, insulting hard working Americans, and purposefully trying to confuse them with the true welfare class is not okay! These are hard workers who buy products and services, they are the backbone of our economy and deserve respect!

Last edited by detshen; 10-16-2011 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:14 PM
 
66,240 posts, read 30,169,021 times
Reputation: 8607
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
What about recession-induced decline in incomes do you not understand. ...Just because people don't pay FIT in one year doesn't mean they never do, many of those people have paid FIT, and will again pay it when their incomes increase, and they find new jobs.
You must be awfully young. A large percentage of income earners have paid NO federal income tax for many years. This is NOT anything new.

Quote:
We all pay based on our income
No, we DON'T all pay. 51% of income earners pay NO federal income tax whatsoever. They are freeloading the federal governments' protections, benefits, and services. They are leeching off of the 49% who DO pay.
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,326,058 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
As I have said before, there is certainly a need for tax reform, and spending reform, but not to a simple flat tax. Increasing taxes without raising incomes on those who already spend their entire income supporting American businesses is only going to hurt our economy, destroy the working classes, hurt the middle classes, and hurt the high upper middle classes through loss of revenue, the only ones who truly benefit from that plan are the very wealthy. When a family is budgeted down to the penny, a tiny increase will destroy them, and can push them to need real welfare which is not what Americans workers want, no one has a stronger work ethic than the US working class. Just because a simple percentage flat tax is some peoples idea of fair doesn't make it truly fair, or in any way a good idea for any but the very wealthy.

And no matter what reform people want, insulting hard working Americans, and purposefully trying to confuse them with the true welfare class is not okay! These are hard workers who buy products and services, they are the backbone of our economy and deserve respect!
Then you have to cut Federal spending so they spend within their budget.

You cannot have it both ways..expanded Federal programs with no increase in Federal income taxes. We spend more than a trillion dollars beyond our revenue. It cannot go on indefinitely.

It's simple math..if your revenue declines then so should your spending.
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