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Old 10-12-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,291,980 times
Reputation: 5175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
and???

the money from the gas tax, goes directly into the general fund too,,not the DOT fund

facts are facts...'about' 50% of the bottom earners pays nearly nothing in federal income taxes... and of those 50... over 15% pay nothing in either federal income or payroll taxes...infact 10% gets back MORE than they paid in in TOTAL wage taxes.
Federal income tax is only a fraction of the overall tax pie. (Some question it is even legal, but that is another topic) 60% of tax revenue is paid by EVERYONE. EVERYONE except government workers and the unemployed pay payroll taxes. Of the people who do not pay Federal Income tax, their wages are low enough to be counter productive to have them taxed. Like I said before, if you make it so people are working and still not surviving, they will turn to alternatives.
There was a time when the Income Tax did not exist, and the government survived, there was a time when the Income Tax was 2% and the government survived.
There was also a time when the top tax rate was 90% and the economy was great.
So what is your point?
Would you rather live close to poverty and pay less tax?
You sound like a spoiled child who is throwing a tantrum because someone else got something you did not.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,139,549 times
Reputation: 27563
You people believe the CBO ? They would need 5 tries to count two pennies correctly.
They have been wrong more than they have been right.


Get with the program people. History of CBO figures speaks for itself.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:04 PM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,694 posts, read 15,562,786 times
Reputation: 9519
THIS IS TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!

Who is congress representing?!?! Themselves with big business or the American public?
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,577 posts, read 14,090,022 times
Reputation: 15735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockside View Post
The CBO.First they said Obamacare would come in on budget. Then they said it would cost over 2 trillion dollars and kill 800,000 jobs.

The CBO is just DC jerking our chain.
The CBO also said in their July 2011 report that unemployment would be 5% by December 2016.

That is an outrageous lie.

It would require (as of October) 225,000 jobs per month for 63 straight months, which is impossible.

If the sudden hiring would cause the 6,493,000 marginalized workers to suddenly jump back into the jobs melee, then it would take 330,000 jobs per month for 63 straight months to get to 5% by December 2016.

That is absurd. I'm shocked and disgusted that my tax dollars pay "you-Harvards" to lie like that.

Understand the marginalized are not counted as unemployed. They got disgusted and threw up their hands in despair and stopped looking for work, but if the job market suddenly heated up, they would jump back into the affray, and depending on how many suddenly decided to try again, the unemployment rate would increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
Please what?

The source of the data disputes your assessment.

Your facts are wrong.

Does that make them opinion?
You haven't presented any facts, only suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Why do some insist on muddying the waters?

What percentage of eligible Americans end up having no federal income tax liability?
I think its 47%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
who has ever claimed that poor people don't pay sales tax? We know they buy xbox's and flat screen tvs.
I have made that claim.

I will prove it to you shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Um, no. The payroll tax for SS is capped because the benefits paid out are capped.

The payroll tax for Medicare is not capped because the benefits are not capped.
That's right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
You don't like the facts presented. Typical of your responses you present no fact based statistical rebuttal for consideration, opting instead for irrelevant commentary and name calling. Duly noted, identified and dismissed as such.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
Not confused; however, I am laughing at you and your brethren as you squirm while working to rectify how to "properly spin" the facts presented and resuscitate your dead pet talking point.

Carry on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
Clearly you're not paying attention.
Since you're having such a difficult time, I'll spell it out for you in gory detail.

As I've proven before, there are people who pay no taxes of any kind. With the Earned Income Credit not only do they pay no federal taxes, but the taxpayers actually give them a gift of money.

Someone with an adjusted gross income of $17,000 (that means they've already taken exemptions and deductions) and one child pays $0 in federal taxes and the taxpayers give them a cash gift of $2,865.

Google EIC and go to the IRS web-site and do it yourself if you want.

Assuming the entire $17,000 is 100% disposable and assuming every single thing they purchase is taxable at a rate 5.5% Sales Tax they would have paid $935 in Sales Taxes.

The free taxpayer gift of $2,864 would negate their Sales Taxes.

(That's special for Calvinist)


The city earnings tax workers pay here is 2.1% of income (and not refundable) so that would be $675 on $32,150 ($32,150 - $15,150 for standard deduction for head of household and two exemptions = $17,000)

$935 + $357 = $1,292

Plus the generous gift from taxpayers of $2,865 - $1,292 = a surplus of

$1,573

So....the story so far is that many of the poor pay no taxes (in this case the tax on $17,000 is $1,956 but would be negated by the child tax credits).

Many States also have their own version of the Earned Income Credit, so they pay no taxes to the State, and some even get a free taxpayer gift from the State.

If they drive and paid State and federal excise tax on gasoline, that $1,573 would buy 312 tax-free gallons of gasoline per month, which is about 78 gallons per week. That's a lot. The majority of people use one or two tankfuls a week, not more than 30 to maybe 45 gallons of gasoline.

So, as you can see, those who receive the EIC pay no taxes of any kind.

More children increases the amount of the free generous taxpayer gift.

I don't count FICA/Medicare, since that money is returned in the form of Social Security/Medicare benefits later, and not really a tax as much as it is a coerced payment to a government savings/retirement plan.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,291,980 times
Reputation: 5175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The CBO also said in their July 2011 report that unemployment would be 5% by December 2016.

That is an outrageous lie.

It would require (as of October) 225,000 jobs per month for 63 straight months, which is impossible.

If the sudden hiring would cause the 6,493,000 marginalized workers to suddenly jump back into the jobs melee, then it would take 330,000 jobs per month for 63 straight months to get to 5% by December 2016.

That is absurd. I'm shocked and disgusted that my tax dollars pay "you-Harvards" to lie like that.

Understand the marginalized are not counted as unemployed. They got disgusted and threw up their hands in despair and stopped looking for work, but if the job market suddenly heated up, they would jump back into the affray, and depending on how many suddenly decided to try again, the unemployment rate would increase.



You haven't presented any facts, only suggestions.



I think its 47%.



I have made that claim.

I will prove it to you shortly.



That's right.







Since you're having such a difficult time, I'll spell it out for you in gory detail.

As I've proven before, there are people who pay no taxes of any kind. With the Earned Income Credit not only do they pay no federal taxes, but the taxpayers actually give them a gift of money.

Someone with an adjusted gross income of $17,000 (that means they've already taken exemptions and deductions) and one child pays $0 in federal taxes and the taxpayers give them a cash gift of $2,865.

Google EIC and go to the IRS web-site and do it yourself if you want.

Assuming the entire $17,000 is 100% disposable and assuming every single thing they purchase is taxable at a rate 5.5% Sales Tax they would have paid $935 in Sales Taxes.

The free taxpayer gift of $2,864 would negate their Sales Taxes.

(That's special for Calvinist)


The city earnings tax workers pay here is 2.1% of income (and not refundable) so that would be $675 on $32,150 ($32,150 - $15,150 for standard deduction for head of household and two exemptions = $17,000)

$935 + $357 = $1,292

Plus the generous gift from taxpayers of $2,865 - $1,292 = a surplus of

$1,573

So....the story so far is that many of the poor pay no taxes (in this case the tax on $17,000 is $1,956 but would be negated by the child tax credits).

Many States also have their own version of the Earned Income Credit, so they pay no taxes to the State, and some even get a free taxpayer gift from the State.

If they drive and paid State and federal excise tax on gasoline, that $1,573 would buy 312 tax-free gallons of gasoline per month, which is about 78 gallons per week. That's a lot. The majority of people use one or two tankfuls a week, not more than 30 to maybe 45 gallons of gasoline.

So, as you can see, those who receive the EIC pay no taxes of any kind.

More children increases the amount of the free generous taxpayer gift.

I don't count FICA/Medicare, since that money is returned in the form of Social Security/Medicare benefits later, and not really a tax as much as it is a coerced payment to a government savings/retirement plan.
You forgot payroll taxes, and not just the portion paid by the employee but the portion paid by the employer. The employer after all reduces the employee's pay in order pay the payroll taxes. The assumption that that money will be returned, is mathematically impossible.
You also conveniently forgot to include sales taxes on all other purchases besides gasoline.
You also forgot the property taxes they pay as part of their rent. The corporate income tax they pay as part of every consumable they buy. The alcohol tax, the tobacco tax, the registration on vehicles, the use tax on vehicles, the excise taxes on tires, the utility taxes, the animal licensing, the fishing and hunting licenses, I could go on and on but, I am weary of trying to fix stupid.
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,877,353 times
Reputation: 1679
Thumbs down hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The CBO also said in their July 2011 report that unemployment would be 5% by December 2016.

You've conveniently left out sales taxes as well as a whole myriad of other taxes, though I do recognize and appreciate you mentioning you have another name for them, and don't really count them...

The figures are fact based in research which dispute your opinion. You've proven nothing.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:08 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,285,873 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
What percentage of Americans pays no federal taxes?



Note from the CBO:


Source
Source
Source (http://1.usa.gov/q7to6X - broken link)

Interesting. 10%
That's a big difference.
You might remember this source....

Quote:
Because of the current progressive tax system, the poor, working class, and many considered middle class pay zero (or close to zero) in income tax. They account for about 40% of the country.
First Read - Tax group: 9-9-9, a 'major tax cut' for the rich, 'substantial' increase on others
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,877,353 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
You might remember this source....
It's irrelevant. The thread has a topic.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:22 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,285,873 times
Reputation: 4031
Default lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by walidm View Post
It's irrelevant. The thread has a topic.
What?

Are you mad that you posted this thread and then just a short time after posted a thread with the link I provided. It came from you...
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,877,353 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
What?

Are you mad that you posted this thread and then just a short time after posted a thread with the link I provided. It came from you...
No. Why would I waste emotion on an anonymous internet character.

Your premise is irrelevant. The thread has a topic.
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