9-9-9 serious...so we have to pay 9% on top of 7% State taxes! (Reagan, gasoline)
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The main point lost in the sales tax focused discussion is that income tax rates are cut and flattened. Those deductions and loopholes used by the wealthy are eliminated. Tax collections should improve through simplification and less abuse of the massively complex tax code.
Cain deserves credit for proposing a bold change. Every other politician proposes tax tweaks, which are simply bandaids that further complicate the tax code.
What loopholes are you talking about. I know it sounds good, but it is just double speak to make it sound like the rich will have to pay there fair share and can't use the code to get around paying taxes. Show me the loophole that is proposed that will require the rich to pay MORE taxes. I warn you, you will not be able to do it.
1) If this were to be implemented, I'll likely consume much less, thus screwing the gov't out of their tax revenue anyways.
When the economy was providing jobs 70% of GDP was based upon consumer spending what do you think is going to suffer more, government or the national economy?
2) No capital gains tax? Time to invest what's saved in #1!
Thats all fine and dandy, for folks who have capital to invest. Your random argument assumes that many Americans can lower consumption of necessary goods and services enough to offset the increase price due to the higher tax on those goods and services not to mention how that reduction in consumption will continue to depress employment.
3) Buy used from Goodwill.. these 2nd hand stores will see a surge in sales.
Another great way to boost production, and employment, brilliant in fact! With everyone rushing off to buy used goods, who needs workers to make, ship, or sell new ones. Brilliant I tell you, simply brilliant!
4) National sales tax can't be avoided by buying online.. except maybe from other countries.
How in god's name are you going to avoid a NATIONAL sales tax by buying online? The reason why you don't pay sales tax on online purchases is because you are buying products that are not sold in your STATE! A National sales tax by definition won't allow you to avoid paying sales tax in fact it will insure it.
I'm just ranting about his overall plan from the perspective of a lower-mid income person who mostly buys online and invests most of disposable income. I actually think #2 might benefit the most since many goods are made in China (or other overseas countries.) Boosting the 2nd hand goods industry will eliminate workers who need to make, ship, or sell new goods.. in China and make the US owners of 2nd hand stores wealthier. I'm not sure if this is enough to offset the pain from #1 but hell, I'm buying Goodwill stock if they ever go public.
I really like Herman Cain but his plan is not something that will work...
He is stating you don't pay the tax on used items....so no tax on a used car?
I don't get it but for groceries, clothes, etc....to me another 9 % is too much...I know on milk, bread there is now no tax, but again an increase of 9%is a lot.
If you listened to Cain last night at the debate, and believe what he says.
(and his campaign will be over by Monday if he lied on TV)
He says that each loaf of bread has 5 different taxes built into the price.
His replacement tax for the NATIONAL TAX CODE will remove all 5 of those taxes before adding the 9% national sales tax.
His plan has nothing to do with state taxes.
BLAME your state for your own state taxes.
His plan is only for the purpose of replacing the national tax code and that has zero to do with the states.
However, in my state, you pay your state income taxes based on your Federal tax return. Eliminate the Federal tax return and state income taxes go.
If you listened to Cain last night at the debate, and believe what he says.
(and his campaign will be over by Monday if he lied on TV)
He says that each loaf of bread has 5 different taxes built into the price.
His replacement tax for the NATIONAL TAX CODE will remove all 5 of those taxes before adding the 9% national sales tax.
His plan has nothing to do with state taxes.
BLAME your state for your own state taxes.
His plan is only for the purpose of replacing the national tax code and that has zero to do with the states.
However, in my state, you pay your state income taxes based on your Federal tax return. Eliminate the Federal tax return and state income taxes go.
I listened to Cain on CNN last night but before the debate. It was the first time I had really focused on what he was saying.
First of all, he seems to be the only candidate who is trying to think outside the box. The rest of them just repeat the same old stuff. Second, he is absolutely right that our tax code needs radical change. Third he is also right about the hidden taxes; what he is proposing is essentially a VAT. Nothing wrong with that because it works.
I think his 9-9-9 plan needs some re-working and I suspect he intends to do that. There does need to be some protection in there for the poorest Americans. But I think his plan is a good basis for a constructive discussion. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the rest of the candidates - or Obama for that matter - have any interest in a constructive and rational debate.
And that is one of the attractions of Cain .... he does not sound like a politician.
With a 9% national sales tax, it's still a net increase for the "middle class" and working poor. THEY would end up paying the greatest percentage of income.
We've paid enough. It's time those who got rich off of us kicked in their fair share. When he comes up with a 1% national sales tax, and a 14% income tax, call me.
The middle class is getting screwed? Yes and No.
Probably if you asked most middle class people they get back most of the taxes they paid during the yr on tax returns (Thus not paying really any taxes). The middle class gets screwed MORE by the low income people who consumer MUCH MUCH more then the rich ever have. I think the lower income actually has to start chipping in more NOT the rich.
1% pays about 49% of the taxes and 51% pay nothing..lolol..hmm somethings wrong.
I think you have class envy and maybe you should go protest on Wall st.
If you listened to Cain last night at the debate, and believe what he says.
(and his campaign will be over by Monday if he lied on TV)
He says that each loaf of bread has 5 different taxes built into the price.
His replacement tax for the NATIONAL TAX CODE will remove all 5 of those taxes before adding the 9% national sales tax.
His plan has nothing to do with state taxes.
BLAME your state for your own state taxes.
His plan is only for the purpose of replacing the national tax code and that has zero to do with the states.
However, in my state, you pay your state income taxes based on your Federal tax return. Eliminate the Federal tax return and state income taxes go.
This is one thing people get stuck on, is they think everything else will remain static. They think their take home pay and retail prices will all remain the same. Once this 999 plan goes into effect, provided the 16th amendment is abolished, we will have more money in our pocket, and the prices for the goods and services we currently pay will drop.
The other point is that we currently pay federal taxes, and state taxes on retail purchases. People act as if paying federal taxes will be a new thing.
I listened to Cain on CNN last night but before the debate. It was the first time I had really focused on what he was saying.
First of all, he seems to be the only candidate who is trying to think outside the box. The rest of them just repeat the same old stuff. Second, he is absolutely right that our tax code needs radical change. Third he is also right about the hidden taxes; what he is proposing is essentially a VAT. Nothing wrong with that because it works.
I think his 9-9-9 plan needs some re-working and I suspect he intends to do that. There does need to be some protection in there for the poorest Americans. But I think his plan is a good basis for a constructive discussion. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the rest of the candidates - or Obama for that matter - have any interest in a constructive and rational debate.
And that is one of the attractions of Cain .... he does not sound like a politician.
The other thing about a federal sales tax is it is a tax we see on our cash register receipt, the politicians cannot hide it, and play games like they do now. If they dare to raise a 9% federal sales tax by 1%, we will all immediately see it, feel and pay it, and the backlash will be immediate also.
They cannot raise the federal sales tax on people according to their income, so any attempt to rise the tax will be raising it on everyone, you, me, the poor, the wealthy and the elderly. Fat chance on raising it. what politician is going to court the ire of the entire nation for proposing raising the federal sales tax?
One thing that may kill any initiative to change to a flat or fair tax is the American Bar Association lobbying against it. I can only assume that they have already lobbied against it any time it has come up. I sure you can imagine their horror at all those out of work tax-attorneys.
He says that each loaf of bread has 5 different taxes built into the price. His replacement tax for the NATIONAL TAX CODE will remove all 5 of those taxes before adding the 9% national sales tax.
Besides the income tax imposed upon the suppliers I'm dying to know what those 5 bread taxes might be.
Quote:
However, in my state, you pay your state income taxes based on your Federal tax return. Eliminate the Federal tax return and state income taxes go.
Ah, you think that states will eliminate their income taxes just because the Fed no longer has one??? You can't be serious. States use Federal returns for computing state income taxes because it is easy and efficient. Eliminate the federal income tax and states will either shift the taxing instrument from income to property or some other method, or much worse, require every business in the state to begin reporting income to the state as they do now with federal taxes. Yikes!
I'm waiting for a candidate to propose 0-50-0. 0% income tax for those who earn less than $400,000/year. 50% income tax for those who make more than that. And in keeping with tradition, 0% national sales tax.
Unfortunately, none of the millionaire candidates shoved down our throats would ever propose such a thing.
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