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Old 10-19-2011, 07:18 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,094,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The Greek government and nation would be fools to do that. Government work is the only thing that is keeping their economy afloat. I think they should tell Bonn and the IMF take their loans an shove them. Greece could and should work out its own economic problems without having to pay of these loan sharks for loans they were effectivly coerced into taking. The Greeks may be a lot of things but fools and cowards are NOT on the list.
Greece has no hope. Leave the currency union, default if need be, devalue their currency, and live off tourism for the next 20 years while they figure out how capitalism works.

Greece’s $473 Billion Debt Mirrors Crisis in Cultural Assets - Businessweek

Quote:
“Greek politicians are intimidated by sponsors, foundations and entrepreneurs,” says Stratigis, former chairman of the 2004 Athens Olympic Organizing Committee. “They’re seen as products of capitalist fortunes, a model that the leftists of Pasok and the populists of New Democracy have rejected for generations because it hurts them during elections.”

Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 10-19-2011 at 07:27 AM..
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:22 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,370,834 times
Reputation: 22268
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The Greek government and nation would be fools to do that. Government work is the only thing that is keeping their economy afloat. I think they should tell Bonn and the IMF take their loans an shove them. Greece could and should work out its own economic problems without having to pay of these loan sharks for loans they were effectivly coerced into taking. The Greeks may be a lot of things but fools and cowards are NOT on the list.
They are fools if government jobs are all that's keeping their economy afloat.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,122,415 times
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It is past time for the forcibly or corrupted nations of the world to tell the usurers of the West the debt cannot be paid and just cancel it. Then they could restart their economies without the drain of interest and get on with living and developing their own economies. There would be some disruption as the usurers lost their investment but they would survive to start another long cycle of indebtedness.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:27 AM
 
272 posts, read 168,815 times
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saw it on the news this morning. they don't want to lay off the people, but they have to, to save the economy.

and guess what?...Obama wants the same thing to happen here in America too.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,613 posts, read 16,341,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I guess the numbers are ridiculously high. Assuming they have a similar percentage of civil servants as Portugal (750k of 11m inhabitants), it would mean every other civil servant would lose their jobs. Assuming they were not watching TV the whole day in the past, Greece would collapse because of government chaos rather than its debt.
The NY Times had an article earlier in the week that showed why the austerity cuts are going to be difficult. The proportion of government workers to the general population is about 10-20% (The government just recently found out the exact number on its payroll.)

The jobs were given out as political favors starting when Greece transitioned to democracy in the 1970s. One job the article highlighted is to have one worker be responsible solely for documenting incoming documents. That's it keep in mind with the advent of email their job is basically nothing now. Also in their constitution government workers have lifetime guarenteed employment.

Like I said this will be fun to watch especially seeing France unravel trying to save the Euro. Moodys has warned them and their rates are at their highest level vs. the German rate in years. You have to wonder why the French are so maniacal about the Euro.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,122,415 times
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I am neither oblivious nor blind. I see the debt as unsustainable and see the desperate measures taken by the creditors to prevent default. They are way too late to save their house of cards. The bureaucrats are not the problem but the failures to invest in productive activities certainly are. The big boys in Bonn, Geneva and Paris screwed up and they want the peasants to bail them out. Well the peasants don’t have the money or the potential to earn the money.

The same dynamic that is taking down the Greek economy is also destroying ours. Capitalist markets work until speculators supported by effectively free money turn it into a casino with fixed tables. They destroy the market and the economy that supported it. Then the financiers loan even more money until they can cover their own losses. Then the system collapses and drowns in a sea of bad debt.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,126 posts, read 19,157,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
The NY Times had an article earlier in the week that showed why the austerity cuts are going to be difficult. The proportion of government workers to the general population is about 10-20% (The government just recently found out the exact number on its payroll.)

The jobs were given out as political favors starting when Greece transitioned to democracy in the 1970s. One job the article highlighted is to have one worker be responsible solely for documenting incoming documents. That's it keep in mind with the advent of email their job is basically nothing now. Also in their constitution government workers have lifetime guarenteed employment.

Like I said this will be fun to watch especially seeing France unravel trying to save the Euro. Moodys has warned them and their rates are at their highest level vs. the German rate in years. You have to wonder why the French are so maniacal about the Euro.
Yes, it must be about 20% here, too.
Even if they fired half of them, those people will be unemployed and receive unemployment benefits, and when those stop, other welfare as frankly nobody needs those people. There are a lot of more qualified unemployed people already.

I am not so sure about the email thing A lot of countries have implemented e-government to a certain degree, but usually you still have to send paper regarding anything important, probably for legal reasons. There was a report on bureaucracy in Portugal (which is similar to Greece in many respects). They showed on office that was literally filled with mountains of files, one could hardly see the employees I had thought those days are long gone, but obviously not so.

Indeed, same in Germany and other countries. Once you are bureaucrat, you have to do something really stupid to get fired, like commit a crime. Else you have a job for life, and pleasant privileges. That's why so many people want to become teachers in certain countries, even if they are simply not cut out to work with kids.

No idea why France is so active. Maybe there is a battle for the leadership within the EU. And the French will go the polls soon if I am not mistaken...
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 19,225,983 times
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They should pull an 'Iceland'.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:12 AM
 
51,429 posts, read 41,456,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The Greek government and nation would be fools to do that. Government work is the only thing that is keeping their economy afloat. I think they should tell Bonn and the IMF take their loans an shove them. Greece could and should work out its own economic problems without having to pay of these loan sharks for loans they were effectivly coerced into taking. The Greeks may be a lot of things but fools and cowards are NOT on the list.
You make Greece sound like a 19yo kid in massive credit card debt through now fault of thier own.

Wow. Not even countries should take personal responsibility for overspending to rev their economy and BUY VOTES?

Heck, the US has been doing this for decades too.

Greece in the EU family is the 25yo stoner son living in the basement playing xbox and smoking pot while everyone else is working.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:30 AM
 
3,151 posts, read 3,125,982 times
Reputation: 1075
They can all move to Jersey and open up more diners.
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