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Old 10-19-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: I live between Myrtle Beach SC and Raleigh NC.
393 posts, read 562,922 times
Reputation: 418

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
No; it's not.

Nope; you're wrong there too.
Well aside from the nutjob's found only at the fringe and edges.

The VAST majority, easily 60-70% of us, are in the moderate middle...
and in nearly universal agreement with each other on all but the rather few hot button social issues.

Issues that only some of those same nutjob's on the fringes and edges work so diligently
to inflate the importance of and use to create the sense of division you describe.

hth
The most "rational" post I have read today! Thank you MrRational for living up to your name!
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:01 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,107,223 times
Reputation: 14896
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLV09 View Post
The United States is one of the most partisan countries in the developed world.
You clearly know very little about international politics, see New Labor vs Tories as just one minor example.

Quote:
Add to that the vast distance that the federal government controls, which means people from states with entirely different cultures, histories, and demographics, have to all live under the same set of federal laws.
The differences are so minor and inconsequential especially when you consider the fact that their are far larger divides between urban and rural communities than there are between regions.

Quote:
Yet, while the Europeans have over 50 independent nations, over here people in San Francisco have to live under the same federal laws as those in Charleston.
Once again, you know little about international politics. All 50 members of the EU operate under the same basic set of laws with the same variations experienced in the 50 states of the U.S.

Quote:
One day you will all wake up and realize this union needs to be divided. I just hope we can do it without any bloodshed.
Can't wait to see how you are going to set the boundaries on your new two nations. I don't think that even the best gerrymandering state legislators could come up with a workable model.



A cartogram of the last election http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartogram
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:08 PM
 
Location: California
1,028 posts, read 1,144,223 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The differences are so minor and inconsequential especially when you consider the fact that their are far larger divides between urban and rural communities than there are between regions.
What? Politically speaking, the people of Santa Barbara, CA and Biloxi, MS have almost nothing in common. For them to have to live under the same federal laws is absurd.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:10 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 1,765,428 times
Reputation: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLV09 View Post
The United States is one of the most partisan countries in the developed world. There are two very distinct political ideologies that are diametrically opposed to one another. Add to that the vast distance that the federal government controls, which means people from states with entirely different cultures, histories, and demographics, have to all live under the same set of federal laws. Case in point: The distance from Los Angeles to Columbia, South Carolina is greater than the distance from London to Moscow (and the cultural difference is greater too). Yet, while the Europeans have over 50 independent nations, over here people in San Francisco have to live under the same federal laws as those in Charleston.

What does this mean for us? That we're all unhappy. We are all living under policies we don't want to live under (Health care is the best example, an odd mixture of public [democratic] and private [republican] that make us get the worst of both worlds and the benefits of neither).

Why are we so naive to think that someday things will be better? Are we that shortsighted to believe that "if we can just win this next election, everything will be ok!" Lets just be honest here, we will NEVER be happy living together. Every 4-12 years someone from the other party will gain office, and the majority in congress will shift, and they will remove old policies and implement new ones that will make half the nation ecstatic and leave the other half seethingly bitter and angry. This means no policies will ever be in place long enough to have a real effect, there will always be constant congressional gridlocks so very little will ever get done, and our taxation and economic regulatory systems will constantly be in flux.

When we will all realize that our country isn't "too big to fail" and that completely independent, smaller regional nations would be much more effective. Why can't people in Oregon smoke pot? Why can't kids in Alabama pray in schools? Why can't Arizona enforce it's own immigration laws? Why are Californian's paying for and engaged in a war both of their senators voted againts?

One day you will all wake up and realize this union needs to be divided. I just hope we can do it without any bloodshed.
"Divided we fall". That isn't just a saying. We have lived with in a united country for over 200 years. Its only the extreme partisanship that has occured since the millenium and the wars, recessions, bailouts etc. and the hate mongering by paid pundits constantly stoking the flames...that have created the division. It can be repaired when everyone stops listening to the hate and divisive talking points and decide how we can best come together again as we have for so long.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: California
1,028 posts, read 1,144,223 times
Reputation: 828
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
The VAST majority, easily 60-70% of us, are in the moderate middle...
and in nearly universal agreement with each other on all but the rather few hot button social issues.
Those few hot button issues are what matter. People are incredibly divided on the two wars, health care, and the economy.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,280,441 times
Reputation: 7950
I think goodtimes59 sums it up pretty well for me. Rick Perry, if he has any chance, needs to get back to the states rights theme. Even if Al Sharpton says it's racism. Let Sharpton babble on.

Having the best, most powerful military in history is still of some value. It means that we can sleep with both eyes closed every night, and that we got hit 10 years ago, but our enemy was never able to mount even one follow up attack. The downside of course is that our leaders are all too tempted to use the military at the drop of a hat.

Shrink the federal gov't and devolve to the '50 laboratories of democracy. We're seeing the benefits of that in the wake of recession with mismanaged states losing population in droves, and better-managed states picking it up.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:15 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,508 posts, read 62,217,072 times
Reputation: 32200
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasureTree View Post
And our leaders... love to bring those fringe lunatics to the forefront.
If by leaders you mean the Koch brothers... I'll likely agree.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:15 PM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,996,463 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
No; it's not.

Nope; you're wrong there too.
Well aside from the nutjob's found only at the fringe and edges.

The VAST majority, easily 60-70% of us, are in the moderate middle...
and in nearly universal agreement with each other on all but the rather few hot button social issues.

Issues that only some of those same nutjob's on the fringes and edges work so diligently
to inflate the importance of and use to create the sense of division you describe.

hth
Amen to that, and I'm getting sick of the fringes trying to constantly set the agenda. I'm hoping that we're seeing the middle become a whole lot more vocal now that both ends have nearly run us into the ground.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,508 posts, read 62,217,072 times
Reputation: 32200
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLV09 View Post
Those few hot button issues are what matter.
People are incredibly divided on the two wars, health care, and the economy.
Nah; not so much really...
or at least only when the questions are phrased "correctly" to achieve that end.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:21 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,107,223 times
Reputation: 14896
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLV09 View Post
What? Politically speaking, the people of Santa Barbara, CA and Biloxi, MS have almost nothing in common. For them to have to live under the same federal laws is absurd.
I've never lived in Biloxi or Santa Barbara, but I have lived in Los Angeles and Jackson MS. Outside of choice of beer and manner of speech, I never noticed much difference when it came to issues that come under federal governance.

By the way the vote in 2008;

Harrison County MS was 22,175 for Obama vs 37,927 for McCain.

Santa Barbara County CA 105,614 for Obama vs 65,585 for McCain.

Now in terms of election results those are significant wins and loses but when you are talking nonsense about secession, you are on pretty shaking demographic ground.

So getting back to my original question, where are your new national boundaries going to go? Or does your little plan involve a bit of political cleansing, as they say?


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