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Old 10-20-2011, 03:30 AM
 
10,115 posts, read 3,370,885 times
Reputation: 3392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLV09 View Post
We put hundreds of people in a room everyday, people that we elect ourselves, to solve our problems and they can't agree on anything.
That's because we're sending people to DC who have no interest in trying to work with anyone else--they're in the crazy fringe. That's the frustration--people like that represent a small portion of the population, but they seem to have a majority of the power. It needs to change.
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:57 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 2,146,100 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
How'd that work out them confederate states?[
That is irrelevant.

Quote:
Well ya got one right, sort of.

But there's a problem while the Federalist Papers may not be law, they are the dicta that underly its interpretation and the intent of the framers.
The intent of a few framers - others disagreed.

Quote:
By the way, the Supremacy Clause is the law of the land. In fact it is THE law of the land.
I suggest you read it more carfully and learn a little history surrounding it. The Clause itself is not 'THE law of the land' - The Constituion and the Laws made in pursuance thereof are - that includes the 10th Amendment.

'This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof... shall be the supreme law of the land.'

Any law made outside of the scope of the powers enumerated within the Constituion have no Federal Authority. This is why Obama and his ilk tried to hide the Health Care Bill under the Commerce Clause (another abused clause of Dictators) - because they need justification for their BS. No State would have ratified that thing otherwise - and it would make the 10th jibberish hogwash.

Here are two Articles by Historians and not some Brainwashed Lawyers.
Nullification: Answering the Objections | Tom Woods

Who’s Supreme? The Supremacy Clause Smackdown – Tenth Amendment Center

No matter what happend since then, with all kinds of Court obfuscation, nothing will change the facts of history.
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:59 AM
 
Location: The Triad (nc)
17,632 posts, read 23,869,054 times
Reputation: 14832
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
How'd that work out them confederate states?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
That is irrelevant.
But it's NOT irrelevant; not in the least..
This is the underlying fundamental lesson to be learned here (perhaps again for some).
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:25 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 2,146,100 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post


But it's NOT irrelevant; not in the least..
This is the underlying fundamental lesson to be learned here (perhaps again for some).
I am talking about whether it was a historical fact and in that case it is not relevant.

But saying that because they lost a war (an economic war which slavery was at the heart) does not mean that there is something intrinsicly wrong with the concept - either theoretically or practically.

My points are about the former not the latter.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: The Triad (nc)
17,632 posts, read 23,869,054 times
Reputation: 14832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
But saying that because they lost a war (an economic war which slavery was at the heart) does not mean that there is something intrinsicly wrong with the concept - either theoretically or practically.
Yeah... it does actually.

The principle in question... that the several states, or even a small group of them, had or deserved the right to impose or endorse civil standards (ie laws) that are materially different than those of the other states...
is (in short) un-Constitutional.

The inverse or perhaps extension of this, is that as there is no justifiable need for separate sets of laws
among the several states... even when there is no material difference between them.
---

btw.. I love how when people argue for states rights the slavery aspect (of the Civil War) was peripheral
and when others argue the economics and slavery aspect (of the Civil War) the states rights aspect becomes peripheral. You should visit the History forum.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:50 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 2,146,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Yeah... it does actually.

The principle in question... that the several states, or even a small group of them, had or deserved the right to impose or endorse civil standards (ie laws) that are materially different than those of the other states... is (in short) un-Constitutional.

The inverse of this, is that as there is no justifiable need for separate sets of laws... even when there is no material difference between them.
---

btw.. I love how when people argue for states rights the slavery aspect (of the Civil War) was peripheral and when others argue the economics and slavery aspect (of the Civil War) the states rights aspect becomes peripheral
You should visit the History forum.
No, my argument is that of the Constitutional Historicity of State Sovereignty over Federal matters outside the scope of delegated authority - even secession - something that is relevant to one of the points in the OP

Please don't tell me what I am talking about - if you would have followed my post from the begining (which you think you would be capable of since you responded to me) you would see that your first point is misdirected. Furthermore, I made comments in regard to another poster and you quoted him with your response - his point was not about your principle.

I can understand the tactic of trying to obfuscate and misdirect. Nice try!
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:52 PM
 
Location: California
945 posts, read 567,365 times
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Whether you like it or not, the country will eventually fragment and divide. No empire or union last forever.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:55 PM
 
Location: The Triad (nc)
17,632 posts, read 23,869,054 times
Reputation: 14832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
No, my argument is that of the Constitutional Historicity of State Sovereignty over Federal matters outside the scope of delegated authority - even secession - something that is relevant to one of the points in the OP.
Constitutional Historicity? wtf is that?

Anyway... I understand your point very well.
My point is that it is (at best) outdated; and as such is irrelevant.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,723 posts, read 2,012,328 times
Reputation: 525
Well, if the misery index were to fall, I might not care. I admit that I'm still waiting for the free house, free car and free gas we were promised.

US 'Misery Index' Soars to Highest Since 1983 on Inflation, High Unemployment
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Old 10-20-2011, 01:01 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 2,146,100 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Constitutional Historicity? wtf is that?

Anyway... I understand your point very well.
My point is that it is (at best) outdated; and as such is irrelevant.
Historicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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