News, Chinese threat needs to be taken seriously, activist warns. (Iran, Iraq)

[John1960]

An anti-communist activist says the U.S. must deal with the reality that Communist China continues to build up its military -- and must be sure it can deter any threat from Beijing in the future.

The incoming chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has pledged that despite the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States military will honor its commitments with its Asian allies. Admiral Mike Mullen says the U.S. is shifting Navy resources to the Pacific as a sign of the region's increased importance.

Chinese threat needs to be taken seriously, activist warns (OneNewsNow.com) (broken link)

[Marodi]

I was thinking about this.

As long as the military has a few back up satalites (specifically GPS) and some high speed cruise missles aimed at chinese spaceports, the US would do ok. Just need to take out spaceports to limit the ability of them taking out GPS.

[NewToCA]

I think folks are really underestimating this, and the Taiwan issue could be a very big deal within the next couple of years.

China has purchased 12 Russian Kilo-class attack submarines, and is equipping them with supersonic Sizzler cruise missles, which US military analyst believe would be difficult for USA aircraft carriers to stop. China has also placed supersonic cruise missiles on their four new Sovremenny-class destroyers, made to order by Russia and designed to attack aircraft carriers and their escort ships. They are also close to producing the Shang, a nuclear powered attack submarine.

I think we really need to understand that this is not a fringe issue, and thought China stays away from much saber rattling, they are rapidly building up their attack capabilities.

[migee]

People forget that China is Communist China...

This is not to say that the Chinese people themselves are all bad...But, it is a communist country, and they are at (political) odds with us.

Maybe it is true that communism is the only practical way to control such a large, poor and diverse country.

But, the people in power there want to stay in power. And, they view us as a threat.

Remember, it was only a short while ago that they literally skyjacked our intelligence gathering plane...And, they grabbed technology that (much of it) advances their knowledge by 20 years.

And, rather than ordering in bombers to immediately destroy the plane, President Bush let them have it...

Yes, they are a threat to us...And, now they are again practicing war manuveurs with Russia....

[mbuszu]

Originally Posted by migee

Remember, it was only a short while ago that they literally skyjacked our intelligence gathering plane...And, they grabbed technology that (much of it) advances their knowledge by 20 years.
And, rather than ordering in bombers to immediately destroy the plane, President Bush let them have it...
Yes, they are a threat to us...And, now they are again practicing war manuveurs with Russia....

Two things -
#1 - do you have a source article or two regarding the plane? You got my curiousity.

#2 - Is the US really considered a threat to China right now (AND vice versa)? Do you have any military & non-military intelligence originated sources for this and regarding the war maneuvers?

The reason I question is that they have a huge number of US and non-US corporations Factories and Business Process Functions already run from there. The US (and most of the developed world) also buys their products (agricultural and man-made) in vast quantities thus directly boosting China's economy.

From my admittantly unresearched viewpoint it thus seems that the US and other world-powers are not going to march into China to war with them. Likewise it would be very bad for both the Chinese government and economy to march elsewhere onto another world-power's soil. Without the US and other world-powers buying their products and participating in business transactions with them some could reasonably argue that China's economy would fall apart - pretty quickly.

All that said, is military build-up something anyone from the outside can prevent? If they want the ability to defend themselves from spy or attack satellites as well as from other nations who might want to attack them, who should act to oppose and what can really be done? What justification is really reasonable?

If indeed the US or other world-powers want to limit the ability of other nations to both defend themselves and in developing technology which can potentially be threatening to others then this needs to be done without playing political nor business/economic games. Everyone would be much better of if the main players were upfront and honest despite political ideological differences.

[bily4]

Yup, that is what I have been saying...China is taking all of the intellectual property we are handing over to them to save a buck, and they are way ahead of where any of the wildest military estimates imagined they would be right now. They are watching us expend all of our efforts in the Middle East and are smiling.

My company and others I am aware of have had some unfortunate incidents with Chinese companies. They will cut any corners and will take advantage of you any way they can. Look at all the product issues coming out of China right now. So I don't trust those guys at all.

I agree both China and the U.S. have so much tied up economically it would not be in anybody's interest to go to war. But China is trying to lessen their dependence on us by increasing trade with other parts of the world as quickly as they can. I would not be surprised if they do decide to take back Taiwan at some point as a show of strength. What are we going to do about it?

[TheHarvester]

Originally Posted by bily4

...both China and the U.S. have so much tied up economically it would not be in anybody's interest to go to war. But China is trying to lessen their dependence on us by increasing trade with other parts of the world as quickly as they can. I would not be surprised if they do decide to take back Taiwan at some point as a show of strength. What are we going to do about it?

Good summary of the thread so far.

What a depressing topic. I'm tempted to say "We won't become enemies, we're economic allies" but the Cold War came in the wake of the USA and USSR fighting together against a common enemy. Just because we have certain peaceful relations and ties to another nation is no guarantee that there won't be future violence between us.

Our nuclear arsenal is so old that a lot of it is estimated to be "duds" at this point, but we don't know because of test ban treaties. I sure don't want to see a return to the days of the Nuclear Countdown and "duck and cover" drills, but I wouldn't be surprised if we revived our nuclear weapons programs in the future in response to perceived threats from China, North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, and others who will undoubtedly develop nukes. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Saudi Arabia developed nuclear weapons, especially as they see their oil reserves dwindling and wake up to the fact that their economy isn't diversified enough to carry them beyond the petroleum age.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by TheHarvester

Good summary of the thread so far.

What a depressing topic. I'm tempted to say "We won't become enemies, we're economic allies" but the Cold War came in the wake of the USA and USSR fighting together against a common enemy. Just because we have certain peaceful relations and ties to another nation is no guarantee that there won't be future violence between us.

Our nuclear arsenal is so old that a lot of it is estimated to be "duds" at this point, but we don't know because of test ban treaties. I sure don't want to see a return to the days of the Nuclear Countdown and "duck and cover" drills, but I wouldn't be surprised if we revived our nuclear weapons programs in the future in response to perceived threats from China, North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, and others who will undoubtedly develop nukes. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Saudi Arabia developed nuclear weapons, especially as they see their oil reserves dwindling and wake up to the fact that their economy isn't diversified enough to carry them beyond the petroleum age.

This topic is exactly why I disagree with Howard Dean's take on the top 4 issues in another thread. I think China and their objective to integrate Taiwan is possibly the most serious issue in the world today.

[tablemtn]

China is very concerned with developing 'asymmetrical warfare' techniques - for example, the idea of using an EMP device to fry all the electronic gear in a large geographic area, or using their stores of American debt as leverage against us (if they dump it, the dollar will become worthless, inflation will explode, and our economy will sink like a rock).

They want to get to the point where the eastern Pacific becomes their 'sphere of influence.' That means that, for example, if they blockade Taiwan, that the US would simply have to accept it, because the consequences of opposing it would be too steep.

In the particular case of Taiwan, I think China is almost there. Realistically, if China went after Taiwan and made it clear that they were not backing down, I doubt we'd spark a full-scale war with them as a result. Too much would be lost over too little.

[TheHarvester]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

I think China and their objective to integrate Taiwan is possibly the most serious issue in the world today.

Interesting... the thing about this issue is that it's an all-or-nothing issue. Either there will be a major conflict or there won't. Meanwhile, there are huge issues related to poverty, health care, budget deficits, the environment and many other problems that are certainties. They might be dwarfed by the problems that COULD occur if the USA and China went to war, but you're betting all your chips on something that may never happen. Meanwhile, we have a lot of problems that are already happening.

Is it wise to focus our concerns on possibilities rather than addressing current issues? I don't know, just asking for your perspective.