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Old 10-28-2011, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,803 posts, read 7,588,026 times
Reputation: 4501

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Every time a statist tries to criticize a libertarian, something like "well I guess you're against public roads, libraries, etc. then" which is so far from truth.

Milton Friedman said government as local as possible was the best way to govern because then you could truly balance the costs (taxes) with the benefits in deciding if you wanted a government program or not, because you could truly see the benefits, they are local TO YOU.

As a libertarian living in Arlington County, Virginia, I was more than pleased to write them a check for my car taxes and decal because I SEE my tax dollars at work, and I know if something fails I have a vote to change how these tax dollars are used. In fact, I'm OK knowing that some of my LOCAL tax dollars are being used to help subsidize low-income housing at the LOCAL LEVEL. What's more, I am proud to pay a reasonable 5.5% income tax and 6% sales tax in Virginia because I know those dollars are going to good use and our state government isn't corrupt because both democrats and republicans in Richmond do a pretty solid job governing. Can't say the same for my federal taxes going overseas to Iraq, to prop up Israel, or help Brazil with oil exploration.
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Old 10-28-2011, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,847,271 times
Reputation: 11318
Who calls libertarians anarchists?
I've never seen that.

Feel free to continue with your faux outrage.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,803 posts, read 7,588,026 times
Reputation: 4501
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Who calls libertarians anarchists?
I've never seen that.

Feel free to continue with your faux outrage.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean I haven't.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:04 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 10,086,672 times
Reputation: 7456
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Every time a statist tries to criticize a libertarian, something like "well I guess you're against public roads, libraries, etc. then" which is so far from truth.

Milton Friedman said government as local as possible was the best way to govern because then you could truly balance the costs (taxes) with the benefits in deciding if you wanted a government program or not, because you could truly see the benefits, they are local TO YOU.

As a libertarian living in Arlington County, Virginia, I was more than pleased to write them a check for my car taxes and decal because I SEE my tax dollars at work, and I know if something fails I have a vote to change how these tax dollars are used. In fact, I'm OK knowing that some of my LOCAL tax dollars are being used to help subsidize low-income housing at the LOCAL LEVEL. What's more, I am proud to pay a reasonable 5.5% income tax and 6% sales tax in Virginia because I know those dollars are going to good use and our state government isn't corrupt because both democrats and republicans in Richmond do a pretty solid job governing. Can't say the same for my federal taxes going overseas to Iraq, to prop up Israel, or help Brazil with oil exploration.

Because there are certain brands of libertarianism that tend to be anarchist in nature! I am a libertarian, but I certainly don't want anarchy, as we do need checks and balances. The other question that should be asked is why are libertarians lumped in with republicans? I am certainly not a republican either! Especially not for what passes as today's republicans!
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:08 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,114,537 times
Reputation: 1532
what is a statist? i've never heard anyone self-identify as that.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:12 AM
 
4,433 posts, read 3,924,306 times
Reputation: 1354
Libertarians are scoffed at for being anti-socialist.

Democrats hate Libertarians. How dare Libertarians take responsibility for their own lives.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:16 AM
 
11,999 posts, read 17,515,194 times
Reputation: 6092
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Who calls libertarians anarchists?
I've never seen that.

Feel free to continue with your faux outrage.
Do a search and you will find an epic battle between myself and someone saying just that.

Not saying its widespread, but it happens.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:17 AM
 
5,335 posts, read 6,146,451 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Every time a statist tries to criticize a libertarian, something like "well I guess you're against public roads, libraries, etc. then" which is so far from truth.

Milton Friedman said government as local as possible was the best way to govern because then you could truly balance the costs (taxes) with the benefits in deciding if you wanted a government program or not, because you could truly see the benefits, they are local TO YOU.

As a libertarian living in Arlington County, Virginia, I was more than pleased to write them a check for my car taxes and decal because I SEE my tax dollars at work, and I know if something fails I have a vote to change how these tax dollars are used. In fact, I'm OK knowing that some of my LOCAL tax dollars are being used to help subsidize low-income housing at the LOCAL LEVEL. What's more, I am proud to pay a reasonable 5.5% income tax and 6% sales tax in Virginia because I know those dollars are going to good use and our state government isn't corrupt because both democrats and republicans in Richmond do a pretty solid job governing. Can't say the same for my federal taxes going overseas to Iraq, to prop up Israel, or help Brazil with oil exploration.
I can't disagree with anything in your post.

I think some people call libertarians anarchists because there are some anarchists in libertarian circles, and the very-limited-government views of most libertarians are seen as no-government beliefs. Look at that SNL debate spoof, when they asked Ron Paul about a burning building with kittens in it, should there be fire departments to save the kittens? No, fake-Paul says, the kittens should die! This is parody of libertarianism, but it comes from nuggets of truth that get stretched to the absurd extreme.

However, we do hear from libertarians who voice views that they're totally self-made and non-recipients of any type of government benefit, when they in fact take advantage of public works and programs. If this is pointed out, they don't admit to agreeing with government in its small local form, as you do, they instead deny that they have benefited any from any type of government. They emphasize that government has next to no proper place, rather than that government is best done locally.

As is evidenced in all political stripes, some people buy into a caricature and stereotype of the other political belief systems. Don't you know, I'm sitting in my parents' basement, eating government cheese as I type this?

Maybe more libertarians should emphasize their advocacy of local, grass-roots government instead of railing against "statists" and evil big government. What I notice most about libertarians is their complaints about government in toto, not their arguments that small, local government is the way to go. Or if they do argue the latter, it's usually limited to throwing out the phrase "states' rights" which isn't a sufficient argument, and is a loaded term due to our history.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:17 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 10,086,672 times
Reputation: 7456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooperkat View Post
Libertarians are scoffed at for being anti-socialist.

Democrats hate Libertarians. How dare Libertarians take responsibility for their own lives.

LOL! It's funny you mentioned that. Was listening to a local talk show host here in Cleveland, and they were discussing politics, and the state of the country with all of the bail outs and entitlement program. The co-host made the comment that "people in this country are allergic to personal responsibility!" I understand s*** happens, but at the same time people should at least strive to not be dependent on the government for a handout.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:18 AM
 
5,335 posts, read 6,146,451 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooperkat View Post
Libertarians are scoffed at for being anti-socialist.

Democrats hate Libertarians. How dare Libertarians take responsibility for their own lives.
Why do non-libertarians believe in a caricature of libertarians? Why do libertarians believe in a caricature of Democrats?
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