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Old 11-09-2011, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,115,131 times
Reputation: 16638

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Fighting to "redistribute wealth" will not restore prosperity.
The reason is simple - wealth isn't prosperity.
To illustrate, let us use the "Gilligan's Island" scenario where a millionaire has his wealth, but there is nothing to buy with it - including rescue.
If tomorrow, all the world's people awoke to the sure knowledge that one billion billion quatloos were deposited in their bank accounts, what would happen? Would anyone bother to go to work, when they're rich? And when there's nothing to buy with all that "wealth", its not worth much, is it?

Prosperity is the creation, trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services. Greater prosperity is making more, with less, so more can enjoy. The opposite, poverty, is the result of making less, with more, so fewer can enjoy.

So why aren't the impoverished working more productively?
Why aren't there any jobs to satisfy unmet needs?
Why are governments subsidizing the non-productive and penalizing the productive?

When you figure that out, you'll know the correct response.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:22 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,928,386 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolac View Post
How do you reconcile your thread title and apparent or hidden intention with very wealthy Bible characters such as Job, Abraham, Solomon, all of whom were God's servants? Are they in hell?
The very first actual valid question in a long time. I thought someone would have brought this up at the beginning of the thread but no they just attacked me instead of the argument.

You did not mention David and Job also wealthy men of their time. These are of the old testament and not of the new testament. Supersessionism, which I believe, believe that old testament was a Covenant with the Jews and the new testament is the new covenant that replaces the old covenant with the jews because they failed God. Thus, there are going to be inconsistencies with the old testament and the new because there is a new covenant.

Other Christians believe that there is no inconsistency. They believe that most wealthy people came about their wealth through sinful means such as averice, greed, oppression etc., while Solomon and David were blessed by God and had no sin.

But that is a very good question. Thank you for asking it. It was at least a refreshingly intelligent question.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:33 PM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,821 posts, read 5,294,193 times
Reputation: 7118
Is Obama, almost all professional athletes, almost all Hollywood 'celebrities', all politicions, and news media, . . . 1%ers?
They are by net worth.

Who decides who is and isn't the 1%?
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:39 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,928,386 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
The eye of the needle was a narrow gate in the walls around Jerusalem which only people passed through. Christ's insinuation is that there are a lot of distractions for the rich to enter heaven, just like it would be distracting to unmount your camel, take all the goods off you were carrying, move throught, and put the goods back on.
The only problem with this story is that it is not true! There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence for the existence of such a gate. The story was first told several centuries ago and has been repeated ever since. It is yet another example of people trying to make Christ's words fit their own concepts of what He meant.

Camels, Rope, and Gnats

Jesus clearly says that it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Can this be done? Of course not! That is the point! Yet, people have tried in vain to make it happen. Some have suggested that there is a misprint in the Greek. The Greek word kamelos, meaning "camel" should really be kamilos, meaning "cable" or "rope." Still, passing a rope through a needle's eye is nevertheless impossible. Ah, but what if one uses a six-inch carpet needle, and the rope is actually made of camel's hair? Others have suggested that this was an Aramaic pun on the word for a camel and that of a gnat or louse, from the Aramaic kalma meaning "vermin" or "louse." It can become quite ridiculous.

All this maneuvering is unnecessary. Christ was using hyperbole, just as He did when He spoke of a plank being in one's eye while attempting to remove the splinter in a brother's eye (Matthew 7:3-4). Everyone seems to understand that this is exaggeration for effect; commentators do not claim, "Well, He really meant a toothpick, not a 2 x 4." In our own speech, we use hyperbole all the time, such as, "This book weighs a ton," or "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse."

Read more: The Rich Young Ruler and the Needle's Eye
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:47 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,928,386 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Somehow, and I'm speaking as a non beilever here, salvation is supposed to have something to do with all this getting into heaven stuff. Not money so much. But what do I know.
As a non believer, you may want to buy or just read the Jefferson bible. You can get it on line for free. It is just the new testament cut down to exclude all miracles and things that Thomas Jefferson considered religious dogma. It is debatable if he was an actual believer at the end of his life, but for most of his life he was not a Christian but believed in deism. He put Jesus above greek philosophers and humanist and even if you did not believe in God he had a great message how one should lead their lives.
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:21 AM
 
30,024 posts, read 18,600,956 times
Reputation: 20808
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
The very first actual valid question in a long time. I thought someone would have brought this up at the beginning of the thread but no they just attacked me instead of the argument.

You did not mention David and Job also wealthy men of their time. These are of the old testament and not of the new testament. Supersessionism, which I believe, believe that old testament was a Covenant with the Jews and the new testament is the new covenant that replaces the old covenant with the jews because they failed God. Thus, there are going to be inconsistencies with the old testament and the new because there is a new covenant.

Other Christians believe that there is no inconsistency. They believe that most wealthy people came about their wealth through sinful means such as averice, greed, oppression etc., while Solomon and David were blessed by God and had no sin.

But that is a very good question. Thank you for asking it. It was at least a refreshingly intelligent question.

Thank you for that insightful, yet grossly incorrect, interpretation of the Old and New Testement. Perhaphs you should read the Bible and go to church, then you may have some credibility. The Bible, as interpreted by atheist liberals, just does not have much credence. It would be like the Torah, as intepreted by Hitler.
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:59 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,928,386 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Thank you for that insightful, yet grossly incorrect, interpretation of the Old and New Testement. Perhaphs you should read the Bible and go to church, then you may have some credibility. The Bible, as interpreted by atheist liberals, just does not have much credence. It would be like the Torah, as intepreted by Hitler.
I am not surprised that you would disagree and attack the messenger since you say that you have 25 million dollars. In your case, I am not sure that if you didn't have 25 million whether it would even make a difference. I hope that is not the case, I wish the best for you.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,496 posts, read 26,555,454 times
Reputation: 8966
Default exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
The rich do not have a monopoly on Hell. There are many other ways to get there. Worshipping people that are rich is certainly a good way to get there.
Jim Bakker and Joel Osteen come to mind, horrid people using religion to manipulate the masses. they shld be in Dante's 7th circle of hell
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,496 posts, read 26,555,454 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
I am not surprised that you would disagree and attack the messenger since you say that you have 25 million dollars. In your case, I am not sure that if you didn't have 25 million whether it would even make a difference. I hope that is not the case, I wish the best for you.
yes hes on CD disclosing personal income....everyone online is a billionaire , brilliant doctor or hotter than George Clooney ...

lmfao
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,312,931 times
Reputation: 2888
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
All you want to do is talk about me. I have asked you as many times as possible that I am not the subject so I will just report you, and be done with you.

You should try sticking to the thread topic.
Oooooh, you're going to report me, I'm skerrred. Please, if you cannot withstand the heat of having your ideas and opinions challenged, don't start threads or post on internet forums then. I haven't strayed off topic at all. I've challenged and even questioned you, yet you avoid answering any of my questions since doing so would expose your hypocrisy. I'll take your above post as your way of admitting defeat.
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