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This article, for those with the fortitude to read the whole thing, is a summation of where we are in history and how we got here.
We find ourselves now on the doorstep of changes too significant for most people to fathom.
A generational and class conflict that will leave our country a much different place than anything any of us has ever known.
I have mixed feelings about that article. I don't like the author, and I don't like Strauss and Howe's generational hocus-pocus.
However, I'm a millenial, and I can relate to some of these things he's talking about. It does feel like the Baby Boomers are waging class warfare against us. When we fight back, they scream, "THAT'S CLASS WARFARE!!" It is continuing to alienate me and drive me away from the things they support, because it feels like the basic interests of my age group (jobs, for example) are being neglected in favor of soon-to-be retirees (lower taxes, higher asset prices).
My buddies are white guys from the deep south.... dyed in the wool fiscal conservatives. We've always been Republicans. Talking to them these days, they are all "independents." Nobody has the heart to switch to the Democrats, but so many of us passionately hate the Republicans and the Tea Party, because its platform is to screw over young people.
Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 11-04-2011 at 09:34 AM..
I generally agree with The Fourth Turning premise, but Occupy Wall Street is not the main event, and income disparity isn't really the problem.
If these people only really knew what REAL income disparity was... they should go live in a hut in rural Peru and then go to see how the rich live in Lima, or see the bottomless chasm that exists between the rich and poor in India...then they'd realize they have it pretty damn good.
But what has become stale is consumer culture; I think relentless and ultimately false advertising has lead massive numbers of people into a false belief/expectation of what "the good life" really is, then frustrates them when they can't achieve it.
People need to realize the lifestyles pandered on TV are NOT realistic and have manipulated their expectations; most unemployed (and underemployed) people don't live in Manhattan Lofts a la "Friends"; most people do not live in large extravagant houses or drive shiny brand-new luxury cars. Nor is any of that stuff necessary for a happy, fulfilling life.
Advertising works by making your current state feel inadequate so you run out and buy whatever they are trying to sell you. It plays on human nature to take advantage of our psychology, and the only true goal is for the advertiser to make money. The negative effects on your psychology are not even taken into account.
Stuff does NOT equal happiness. Good health, a reasonably comfortable and manageable lifestyle, a pleasant and uplifting environment, strong positive relationships with other people, a place in the community and interesting experiences DO.
My hope for the outcome of this 4th Turning is that people stop focusing their lives on stuff, and realign back to what really matters.
I have mixed feelings about that article. I don't like the author, and I don't like Strauss and Howe's generational hocus-pocus.
However, I'm a millenial, and I can relate to some of these things he's talking about. It does feel like the Baby Boomers are waging class warfare against us. When we fight back, they scream, "THAT'S CLASS WARFARE!!" It is continuing to alienate me and drive me away from the things they support, because it feels like the basic interests of my age group (jobs, for example) are being neglected in favor of soon-to-be retirees (lower taxes, higher asset prices).
My buddies are white guys from the deep south.... dyed in the wool fiscal conservatives. We've always been Republicans. Talking to them these days, they are all "independents." Nobody has the heart to switch to the Democrats, but so many of us passionately hate the Republicans and the Tea Party, because its platform is to screw over young people.
The purpose of articles like that one are not necessarily to have you agree with every aspect, but to present a view that makes you stop and think about the issue.
When we can open mindedly look at all points of view, and decide for ourselves, instead of adopting the canned opinions of political parties, then we can truly begin to solve the problems facing us.
We Baby boomers can't be blamed for being born! The war brides and returning soldiers were at fault! There's a lot of us. Besides we're YOUR parents, so you are stuck with us as well. You've got another 20 years for YOUR ideas to finally **** off your kids.
I generally agree with The Fourth Turning premise, but Occupy Wall Street is not the main event, and income disparity isn't really the problem.
If these people only really knew what REAL income disparity was... they should go live in a hut in rural Peru and then go to see how the rich live in Lima, or see the bottomless chasm that exists between the rich and poor in India...then they'd realize they have it pretty damn good.
That statement is meaningless. We are The United States of America. The fact is that we have the worst income disparity in AMERICAN history. It is the system that is broken and it can be fixed. If you don't see that, than unfortunately you are part of the problem.
We've always been Republicans. Talking to them these days, they are all "independents." Nobody has the heart to switch to the Democrats, but so many of us passionately hate the Republicans and the Tea Party, because its platform is to screw over young people.
Lyndon Johnson's Great Society and VietNam debacle left the U.S. a very different place than it had been before. This is taking place - again - right now with OWS. It will happen again. As a living entity, the U.S. will morph and emerge a different place from time to time. There will constantly be a struggle between left and right. Maybe not left and right as we know yesterday or today but according to conditions at the time. As long as government doesn't kill the country first.
You'd do well to stick with being Independent. If you have a problem with the Republican Party and the Tea Party then if you would embrace being Independent you'd also have a problem with the Democrat Party. Any party alignment results in someone thinking government is trying to screw them over. This highlights the advantage of small government is good government.
The less government has influence in your life - our lives - the less opportunity it has to do harm.
our great sin was that we did not like the way our grandparents did things (marriage & family come to mind), so we did our own version. we failed.
we cinched it when we told our kids, the work that our grandparents did was not good enough for them, they deserved much better. americans, in their zeal to cast off the past and be true americans, keep rejecting whatever was learned by past generations. dumbing down is the result.
Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 11-04-2011 at 11:03 AM..
That statement is meaningless. We are The United States of America. The fact is that we have the worst income disparity in AMERICAN history. It is the system that is broken and it can be fixed. If you don't see that, than unfortunately you are part of the problem.
Great article and well researched.
So you are entitled to that Manhattan loft and brand new Mercedes SLK because you are an American?
Such inequality that you have to live in a normal house and drive a Chevy instead. It's tragic, really.
Ever heard of the Law of Diminishing Returns? There is a big difference in comfort and lifestyle between someone who makes 20K a year vs someone who makes 60K, somewhat less between someone who makes 60K vs 100K and even less between a 100K earner and a 200K earner. By the time you get to the millions, there is hardly a difference in lifestyle at all, despite adding millions of dollars to their incomes.
Luxury goods are invented and pandered to part the wealthy from their money with a basis in status, not lifestyle improvement. A Rolls Royce won't get you to the grocery store any faster than an Aveo.
You shouldn't feel deprived because you drive an Aveo. You are lucky to have a car; most people in the world don't. They don't even have enough to eat or clean water to drink.
The point is, you are wasting your life if you spend it chasing dollar bills. Once you get to a certain point where your needs are taken care of and you are safe, warm, secure and comfortable, additional spending for fancier stuff is just buying prestige among other hollow, stuff-obsessed people. I am not jealous of extremely wealthy people, I feel bad for them for putting so much time and effort into something that is worthless in the end.
Sometimes the river runs high and you can easily float down it.
Sometimes the river runs low and you have to carry your canoe.
You don't credit or blame the floater for the level of the river.
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