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Old 09-27-2007, 04:59 PM
 
99 posts, read 198,228 times
Reputation: 112

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCaver View Post
[while wiping the blood from my forehead from the repeating knocks upon the wall...] .
Here, allow me to loan you my own similarly bloodied old Holiday Inn towel with the green stripe, my favorite. And may I borrow that mirror to check my own banged up forehead?

What continues to amaze me, really, really amaze me, is the ones who chime in here without once, not once, having considered reading through this thread and taking a look at the historically accurate information provided and the various points of view from all sides.

A friend pointed out that reading entirely through the thread is akin to moving from third grade toward graduation. She had a point, for sure. One will forever be mired in ignorance, the third grade if you will, unless they have a smidgen of desire to move to the fourth, fifth, on toward graduation. The only way to do that is to steele oneself to the idea of becoming educated. As has been said (but rarely read) many times in this thread.....education is a wonderful thing.

I don't ask anyone to agree with me. Just give the whole thing a read and make up your own mind. But, please, for your own sake, review the information provided, weigh it, then make up your own mind. You owe it to yourself and to those with whom you interract and influence on a daily basis.

 
Old 09-28-2007, 08:40 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,462,793 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by germ482x View Post
Just because your friends from the North decide to relocate (due to jobs, finances or weather) doesn't mean they're trying to take 'your' homeland and change your way of life. If they don't mesh well with your local way of life, give them time. They're from somewhere else. Have an open mind for God sakes!
Just because your friends from the south decide to honor a flag of their past, doesn't mean they're trying to insult 'your' homeland or perpetuate racism. If that doesn't mesh well with your local Connecticut way of life, give it time. They're from somewhere else. Have an open mind for God sakes.

Quote:
To sum up, the confederate flag is nothing but a sad reminder of our not so distant past. Get rid of the flag and unite our country under OLD GLORY - not what flies aside her in many southern states.
"Old Glory" is no more innocent than the Confederate flag, which has been discussed ad nauseum without much factual opposition.

or, in other words,

"To the degree you condemn and find evil in others, you are to that degree unconscious of the same thing in yourself" - Carl Jung
 
Old 09-28-2007, 09:06 AM
 
Location: MO Ozarkian in NE Hoosierana
4,682 posts, read 12,036,855 times
Reputation: 6992
Quote:
Originally Posted by germ482x View Post
How original. Do you have anything else to write, say maybe, with thought?
Do you come here to debate and/or learn, or just to insult and degrade?
 
Old 09-28-2007, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,004 posts, read 77,246,033 times
Reputation: 10370
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
Just because your friends from the south decide to honor a flag of their past, doesn't mean they're trying to insult 'your' homeland or perpetuate racism. If that doesn't mesh well with your local Connecticut way of life, give it time. They're from somewhere else. Have an open mind for God sakes.
Theyre not from "somewhere else", theyre from the same frickin country (that is, you know, UNITED). If you want to fly your state flag, fine, thats understandable. Flying a flag, like the Confederate flag, that represents secession, division, slave-ownership is not understandable to many, you should understand that (hopefully). So while you may think its ok, others see it as vile/offensive. So go ahead, fly a flag that is offensive to many! Be proud of your "heritage", your past, your history. But dont you take offense if I feel the desire to rip that frickin flag right off its post and fly the flag of the UNITED STATES in place of it.

One of my fave Don Troiani paintings was "fighting for the colors". People died fighting for that flag in the painting (it was a true story for those of you who dont know much about the Civil War), thats how far some were willing to go to make sure that flag didnt fly anymore. To think that people were willing to die (and did!) to have that flag removed should speak volumes about how offensive some think it was. The flag in the painting now resides in a Michigan museum (I forget which), as it was taken from the rebs by a Michigan unit.

http://assonetart.com/TroianiFightfortheColors.jpg
 
Old 09-28-2007, 09:09 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,462,793 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by germ482x View Post
How original. Do you have anything else to write, say maybe, with thought?
If you can't see the hypocrisy in your original statement, then it isn't really worth my time to discuss this with you.

Last edited by anonymous; 09-28-2007 at 09:39 AM..
 
Old 09-28-2007, 09:39 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,462,793 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post
Theyre not from "somewhere else", theyre from the same frickin country (that is, you know, UNITED).
Two people can live in different places, yet be in the "same frickin country." That just seems obvious to me.

Quote:
Flying a flag, like the Confederate flag, that represents secession, division, slave-ownership is not understandable to many, you should understand that (hopefully).
I acknowledge that to some - not me - the flag does represent those things. That's fine. That was never an issue.

To me, the issue is that I tolerate the angry and hateful language and opinions of others, yet, they don't tolerate the flag they perceive as angry and hateful. I'm aware of my regional bias, it just doesn't seem like the other American regions are aware of theirs.

The fact is, the flag isn't really important to me. I'm a South Carolinian who supported the flag's removal from the statehouse dome. So why am I arguing over this? Because some Americans want to deny other Americans the right to express their personal views with their private property.

Quote:
So while you may think its ok, others see it as vile/offensive. So go ahead, fly a flag that is offensive to many! Be proud of your "heritage", your past, your history. But dont you take offense if I feel the desire to rip that frickin flag right off its post and fly the flag of the UNITED STATES in place of it.
See, I do tolerate your hateful and biased views. I'm OK with it - In fact, I can live with the entire country hating my ancestors. Like you said, it is America. Of course, your right to desecrate a flag ends where my property begins.

Quote:
One of my fave Don Troiani paintings was "fighting for the colors". People died fighting for that flag in the painting (it was a true story for those of you who dont know much about the Civil War), thats how far some were willing to go to make sure that flag didnt fly anymore. To think that people were willing to die (and did!) to have that flag removed should speak volumes about how offensive some think it was. The flag in the painting now resides in a Michigan museum (I forget which), as it was taken from the rebs by a Michigan unit.

http://assonetart.com/TroianiFightfortheColors.jpg
It's a good painting, and a good story. To me it illustrates the collective philosophical differences of the different parts of our country.
 
Old 09-28-2007, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,004 posts, read 77,246,033 times
Reputation: 10370
Thanks for your viewpoints, I figured youd be the first to respond. FYI, I dont hate your ancestors, I dislike their views, as Im sure you dislike my ancestors' views on the subject. If people want to love their heritage/history/etc, more power to em, noone is holding them back. However, as offensive to some as it would be for me to rip the Confederate flag off its post, its just as offensive to fly it to others. Thats the point I was trying to get across. Its just a flag that shouldnt be flown anymore, IMO. Thats my story and Im stickin to it.
 
Old 09-28-2007, 03:55 PM
 
Location: MO Ozarkian in NE Hoosierana
4,682 posts, read 12,036,855 times
Reputation: 6992
Quote:
Originally Posted by germ482x View Post
Or can it be that you have no way of defending what you people consider culture? I don't really want to have a discussion regarding the confederate flag - there's nothing to discuss - you love it, I hate it. Period.
Then, please explain why you post statements in a degrading and insulting manner in a thread pertaining to this flag?
 
Old 09-28-2007, 04:39 PM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,462,793 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by germ482x View Post
Don't just sit there after reading my opinion and say "meh, it's not worth it."
Why not? You obviously didn't bother to read the rest of the thread. You aren't bringing up any new arguments that haven't already been discussed.

Yes, I know, you're going for shock value with the whole swastika comparison. I think that was covered somewhere around page 20 - 25.
 
Old 09-28-2007, 04:40 PM
 
Location: MO Ozarkian in NE Hoosierana
4,682 posts, read 12,036,855 times
Reputation: 6992
Quote:
Originally Posted by germ482x View Post
Obviously to express my "degrading and insulting" opinion on a "degrading and insulting" sad representation of culture.

If you want to have a debate about it - then please be my guest to challenge my OP to this thread. Don't just sit there after reading my opinion and say "meh, it's not worth it." So you tell me, is the confederate flag really worth defending?

Or, like anonymous, do you want to defend people's right to fly the flag? It's no different than flying the swastika.
Would it be possible of you to show some initiative on your own and read a few of the posts within this thread pertaining to the history, etc. of the flag and of the time periods related to the cause of that war?

You stated that you "don't really want to have a discussion regarding the confederate flag - there's nothing to discuss - you love it, I hate it. Period." Yet now you are challenging others?

As to the swastika, your comparison of the Battle Flag to that in this manner shows further how little you really know about either symbol. Yes, the manner that it was used during the reign of the Nazi's is very terrible, sad, wrong, and despicable - and those idiots that continue to spew such hatred. But have you any knowledge of its history either?

And to answer your question, yes, I have and I will defend those that desire to fly this particular flag. Sorry, but it is only demeaning or offensive, IMHO, to others because that is what they have wrongly and misguidedly learned.

I will try to come back and debate if you so desire further rebuttals, but I will be away from 'net most of the rest of the evening. Peace.
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