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Those defects could very well become the fittest if and when the environment changes. Biodiversity is the only saving grace when the environment changes.
How could those defects be beneficial if and when the environment changes? Defects in chromosomes with regard to Downs are not beneficial, although I did read a report once that they are less likely to have some cancers. That should be studied further.
Defects in chromosomes with regard to Downs are not beneficial. Although I did read a report that they are less likely to have some cancers. That should be studied further.
Not now but if the environment changes they could be. You never know with evolution. The big-beaked birds were the freaks on Wallace's island till the climate became dry and the seeds grew bigger, and then they were the only ones that could eat. The dark-colored moths were the freaks till the U.K. underwent the Industrial Revolution and then they were the only ones that could be well camouflaged on the soot-covered tree bark. You never know how the environment might change. There is a reason evolution allows for "errors." Those errors may very well become the survival of the fittest.
Not now but if the environment changes they could be. You never know with evolution. The big-beaked birds were the freaks on Wallace's island till the climate became dry and the seeds grew bigger, and then they were the only ones that could eat. The dark-colored moths were the freaks till the U.K. underwent the Industrial Revolution and then they were the only ones that could be well camouflaged on the soot-covered tree bark. You never know how the environment might change. There is a reason evolution allows for "errors." Those errors may very well become the survival of the fittest.
I don't want to compare simple bird and other animal/organism evolution to human evolution. Human evolution depends on genetic, our environment and social structures. If we allow the perfect genetic environment for humans to develop combined with better social structures we will excel faster than without, and that's beneficial to humanity.
I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would think we should not prevent serious medical disorders. ?
From what I see here it's becasue they see high functioning people on tv or whatever and think that's that.
I'm not going to say much on this subject becasue I don't have personal experience with it. But I did read a story once about a couple who had a disabled child, a perpetual child who would never be independent. They were retired and had cared for him at home his entire life and were worried sick about what would happend to him once they were gone and he entered "the system". What I remember most is them hoping, secretly, that he would die before they did...what a position to be in.
Who else do you want to be killed for not being perfect?
It's not about "not being perfect" it's about allowing the mother the choice to have an abortion if the child has a condition that can potentially make them incapable of looking after themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Downs syndrome people actually sometimes work and hold down jobs, support themselves. It would be far better to have welfare recipients sterilized as they prove to be unable to take care of themselves and sterilization doesn't kill a human being.
You oppose abortion, but you're fine with forced sterilization?
I see your point. But at the same time, I don't think Downs people in general are anywhere near that part of the spectrum. If we were talking about babies with crippling chronic pain and the inability to function whatsoever, but who were conscious of their surroundings, for example, then I would understand better. But Downs people aren't suffering for the most part. Most Downs people are perfectly happy people, or they have about the same range of problems as the average population.
I agree 100%.
I noted before that there is a wide spectrum of "disabilities" and the cases I would not want to live in are the ones hidden out of sight in institutions and never see the light of day before dying at a very young age. I'm not saying it's cruel, it's just the further end of the spectrum where they are being kept alive just long enough to not even live but to lay there but that's just my opinion and choice were I in that situation and hypothetically allowed to choose my fate.
I'm afraid I don't believe any spirit needs be trapped in a body that given more primitive times they would not have survived. While some may think it cruel, note that many require special care and as parents often pass before their children it creates a real problem for who is to care for a special needs child.
While it may not be a great solution it is the right one.
It's not about "not being perfect" it's about allowing the mother the choice to have an abortion if the child has a condition that can potentially make them incapable of looking after themselves.
You oppose abortion, but you're fine with forced sterilization?
No, I never said forced sterilization. It should be made mandatory in order to receive welfare handouts past 6 weeks or so, but of course living off welfare handouts on a long term basis would be completely voluntary.
But yes, abortion kills a living human being and I'm against that, sterilization doesn't kill or harm anyone.
Again, I think laziness is a worse disability than Downs syndrome, someone with 2 useable arms and legs, an IQ over 80 that doesn't want to work and pretends to be unable to work and believes the world owes him/her a living is pathetic.
Who said the disabled can't be productive? My Downs cousin works two jobs. My quadriplegic girlfriend is in grad school to become a doctor. Disabled people can be productive. The only barrier is ignorant people telling the disabled they can't do anything when in fact we can. If we stop seeing the disabled as "defective", then we will soon realize that disabled people can be, and many already are, productive members of society.
I know Downs syndrome people who are working and are very happy and eager to work. They're almost always nice people, seem very happy with life itself. One advantage they have is that they don't get bored with certain tasks that might bore someone else.
Maybe someone with a very high IQ who is miserable and unhappy in his or her life has the real disability.
I agree that we need to stop seeing disabled as defective especially as many of them can and want to do something productive. There are jobs that don't require an IQ over 120 for example, and many Downs syndrome people are even in the normal IQ range.
There was a case of a boy with Downs in the Special Olympics and he was winning but stopped to allow the other to pass him and when asked he said he wanted his friend to win. Too bad more people aren't like that.
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I'm not saying it's cruel, it's just the further end of the spectrum where they are being kept alive just long enough to not even live but to lay there but that's just my opinion and choice were I in that situation and hypothetically allowed to choose my fate.
