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Old 11-17-2011, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Word Traveler via Haslet TX.
504 posts, read 383,766 times
Reputation: 262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Note the attacks on the OP not on his ideas.

I realize President Obama is controlled by the same big business cabal as the Republicans but at least the Democrats are willing to throw a few more scraps to most of us. The Republicans would give all if it to the 0.1% while letting the rest of us die of untreated illness or freezing in the dark because we lost all our savings in a well planned market crash or bank failure.

We do need a new political Party. I suggest one based on the ideology, but not the dishonesty, of Huey Long's populists. Ron Paul does not come close to providing the ideas and leadership this country need to survive let alone prosper in the coming Century. As the political and economic power is shifting to China we will be lucky to do as well as the British after the failure of their empire. No current politician has a clue as to preventing this decline. In fact most are bribed with money or prestige to hurry the process along.

At least voting Dem will buy us the time to maybe pull our heads out of our orifices. ----------------------But like I have said in previous post let the GOP take the reigns and let them pass everything with no opposition. THis way the people who spew Republican talking points finally see what the true consequences are of the people they follow, then follows a quick and bloody revolution, because its not much of a fight when its 99% vs 1%. But as of now we are too divided so for now vote the lesser of the two evils and hope we smarten up about who is really behind the curtains pulling the strings---As much as Obama being a negro bothers some of you please recognize he has the same puppet masters as Bush and all those before him and if he is defeated he will hand the strings over to the republican of your choice.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,210,898 times
Reputation: 8833
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI*TEA View Post
4 out of 5 working class homeowners pay BOTH interest and property taxes, so this hurts them tremendously. If you own all these homes outright, you are obviously not middle class, nor working class. Your handle is a sham...you obviously don't work if you are FOR taxing workers health insurance..
I worked at metlife mid 90's , they had that sham "HSA-health savings account" ..i.e. you had to take cash out of your OWN paycheck each month...
small business owners then were paying 6k per month for employees...health ins. should be a right not a privilege, it is unaffordable unless you are a multi-millionaire . One day in the ER costs 4-6k now...with tests etc.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:58 PM
 
3,349 posts, read 2,562,252 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Note the attacks on the OP not on his ideas.

I realize President Obama is controlled by the same big business cabal as the Republicans but at least the Democrats are willing to throw a few more scraps to most of us. The Republicans would give all if it to the 0.1% while letting the rest of us die of untreated illness or freezing in the dark because we lost all our savings in a well planned market crash or bank failure.

We do need a new political Party. I suggest one based on the ideology, but not the dishonesty, of Huey Long's populists. Ron Paul does not come close to providing the ideas and leadership this country need to survive let alone prosper in the coming Century. As the political and economic power is shifting to China we will be lucky to do as well as the British after the failure of their empire. No current politician has a clue as to preventing this decline. In fact most are bribed with money or prestige to hurry the process along.
Why should we have to settle for a "few scraps"

We good hard working Americans deserve much better than that. We should not have to settle for anything. We need to band together and solve this since we have the power still through the vote.

It is obvious that the mainstream media is bought and paid for by the same entities and the 2 parties so educate yourselves and get the message out and don't cave in.

Settling for the lesser of 2 evils just won't cut it anymore
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,384 posts, read 4,234,286 times
Reputation: 2273
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI*TEA View Post
Here is what you are missing... Half of the population pays no federal income taxes. So out of the two-thirds who take the standard deduction , only a small fraction will see any kind of tax cut. Now out of the one-third that itemize, 9 out of 10 are middle class earners. Rich people don't mortgage their homes. This wipes out anyone that earns under $200k and itemizes. While gives the rich a huge tax break. AND it taxes every single workers health insurance!!! Are people that blind to not notice this attack on the middle class??
Here is what YOU are missing.

The top 1% of wage earners in this country's income starts at just over $100,000. (This means that all those people between that and your $200K figure are part of the top 1%, and if you are making 150K you are NOT middle class, you are part of the top 1%).
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,315 posts, read 13,040,502 times
Reputation: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI*TEA View Post
4 out of 5 working class homeowners pay BOTH interest and property taxes, so this hurts them tremendously. If you own all these homes outright, you are obviously not middle class, nor working class. Your handle is a sham...you obviously don't work if you are FOR taxing workers health insurance..
YES THEY PAY BOTH

and the interest is tiny compare to the tax

and the interest still doesnt bring you up to the standard deduction...unless its a jumbo loan...which if you have a jumbo loan you ar not workingclass

you have been debunked
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:07 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 24,995,903 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
People who have high incomes (100k+, 250k+, 500k, whatever) are not necessarily wealthy, especially if they live in somewhere like NYC or DC. They are "high income", may have tons of mortgage debt and property taxes, and heavily utilize the mortgage interest and property tax deductions.

Yep. It's the "higher earning" individuals who usually get to itemize, bringing the burden of paying for the bottom half, and subsidizing the top half, who can afford much better tax shelters and accountants, or live off investment proceeds taxed at 15%.... with losses written off as well.

And let's not even discuss what a loss of interest deduction will do to the middle-upper-middle class housing stock and home affordability! (Paving the way for the rich to swoop in and scoop up even more cheap real estate to add to their portfolio!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awritus
People who have tons of wealth (billions) are not necessarily earning high wages, or itemizing and utilizing the mortgage interest deduction to begin with. If they do it doesn't really make much impact on their tax burden anyway, since their big benefit comes primarily from the "Bush tax cuts", which lowers the capital gains rate.
Exactly! The day we figure out how to tax WEALTH instead of WAGES in this country, is the day the rich start paying their actual fair share.

When people whine that 50% do not pay income taxes, etc., they forget that those 50% have very little at stake in the country. No assets to speak of, and a system that does not work in their favor and to their economic benefit. We really aren't all in this together. A minimum wage worker has less interest in maintaining a capitalistic, business friendly society than I do, and I have much less interest in maintaining that system than a billionaire.

The courts, congress, the military, it's all about protecting the wealth and business of the rich. The sheer % of wealth and total assets concentrated in so few hands in this country shows that as a percentage of what they have "in stake," in this country.

The top 1% control 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) have 50.5%.

This means that just 20% of the people own a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%.

So why shouldn't the top 1% ALSO be responsible for paying for at LEAST 30% - 40% of what it takes to run the country? They control it and own it. Why does everyone else have to pay for it, when it barely benefits them?
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:11 PM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,603,898 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
Here is what YOU are missing.

The top 1% of wage earners in this country's income starts at just over $100,000. (This means that all those people between that and your $200K figure are part of the top 1%, and if you are making 150K you are NOT middle class, you are part of the top 1%).
I thought according to the IRS, the "one percent|" was those making over
$900,000 a year. And, according to the Dept. of Health & Human Services
the "middle class" is a single person making $29,000 a year up to a married
couple making $150,000 a year.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,315 posts, read 13,040,502 times
Reputation: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post

Exactly! The day we figure out how to tax WEALTH instead of WAGES in this country, is the day the rich start paying their actual fair share.
a good portion of income is never reported to begin with


tax spending not income

warren buffet has 100k worth of income. then gets hit with cap gains.....but he spends 100's of millions a year

tax spending not income

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:21 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,315 posts, read 13,040,502 times
Reputation: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
Here is what YOU are missing.

The top 1% of wage earners in this country's income starts at just over $100,000. (This means that all those people between that and your $200K figure are part of the top 1%, and if you are making 150K you are NOT middle class, you are part of the top 1%).
oh please

are you saying a workingclass nassau cop (regular PO) making 150k is rich???

is a workingclass cop married to a workingclass teacher rich, just becausethey cross some liberal line in the sand on income???


you qualify fro welfare if you earn under 47k here in nassau....by the government statndards 46k is impoverished
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,956,954 times
Reputation: 7181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
About a third of households don't own their homes. About a third of those homeowners don't have mortgages, and don't benefit from the mortgage deduction.

As to the other two thirds of homeowners with mortgages, the question is whether the bulk of them would benefit more from the MID or a lower marginal tax rate.

Both of these deductions are targeted mainly at middle and upper middle class people in places like New York and California. If you are a middle class person living in a place with reasonably priced houses and reasonable property tax rates, then losing those deductions isn't a big deal, even if you're a brand new homeowner who is at the beginning of your mortgage's amortization schedule.
Define middle and upper class.

I'll give you a hint -- it has nothing to do with income and is based upon level of education attained.

There are plenty of NYers and Californians who are blue collar and by virtue of their education, are considered lower class.

Both my husband and I do not have college degrees. I have some college, he has a semester. He swings a hammer. We are solidly blue collar, lower class YET we manage to survive in NY like countless others. There are reasonably priced houses in both states. Taxes, not so much.

There are a lot of lower class homeowners throughout the entire US. To someone who owns a home, who is paying a mortgage and property taxes, and who is scraping by -- that mortgage and tax deduction is a big help to them. Keep in mind that heating oil, electric and food prices continue to rise. The extra money a homeowner gets back as a result of the mortgage and tax credit can help in these tough times.

Not too long ago our POTUS pushed a program to get more Americans into home ownership. They bought, received their incentives and knew that they would be able to deduct the mortgage interest and property taxes. Now the government is going to pull the rug out from under these newbie homeowners.
Whether that house is in CA, NY, IA, ND or SC -- it is going to hurt most mortgage and tax paying homeowners in this economy.

If homeowners can no longer afford their homes (combo of loss of tax deductions and poor economy) they will be forced to rent. Who benefits? The large companies which own rental apartments and individuals who own multiple rental houses. I know guys who own companies like that. They are the 1%. Eliminating a tax deduction that all home-owning taxpayers can take advantage of isn't punishing the wealthy, it's hurting the average Joe.
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