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Old 11-17-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: United States
5,888 posts, read 4,503,172 times
Reputation: 1906

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
you know this is actually an excellent question. I was reading something by Joseph Stiglitz the other day, who argued that:

a. free trade benefits corporations and their wealth, but
b. free immigration benefits the workers and their wages.

With restrictive immigration laws across the globe, each country effectively makes its workforce "captive," and therefore unable to dictate its wages in a true "global market." For example, under a globalized "free immigration" system, American workers might start moving to other, more worker-friendly capitalist countries, like Canada, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, or the Netherlands, and change the existing wage dynamics.
Their is a difference between North Koreans who MUST stay in North Korea and Americans who CHOOSE to stay in America.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:53 PM
 
17,287 posts, read 25,058,274 times
Reputation: 8535
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
If you knew anything about history but you would know that there has never been a country where the people ruled over the government except, of course, the early United States.
Err... except ancient Greece (democracy), and ancient Rome (republic).

The situation that was present when the US was in its infancy is no longer applicable here, and for the better... use of slave labor, child labor, indentured servitude, and the granting of FREE swaths of land by the GOVERNMENT to PEOPLE via the homestead act (perhaps the greatest forgotten act of government socialism that many conservative land owning families in the midwest and west built their present fortunes on), not to mention removal of native people so "private owners" can expand their slave plantations, etc. etc..

People like you absolutely refuse to believe that smart people can get together, and make a democratically elected decision to have a government that works for THEM in ways they WANT them to.

There is nothing per se better about getting my electricity from a municipality owned electricity provider vs. a private provider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
It goes against human instinct to allow people to govern themselves hence no libertarian countries.
Anyone living in a democratic system is by definition "governs themselves." You are not living "more free" than a person in Sweden because Sweden has a bigger "nanny state" than the United States. Not one iota. You have more disposable after tax income. That's it. That's not correlative with 'freedom.'

The problem is you want to say people should NEVER be allowed to decide through the democratic process that they want to pool resources (in the form of the government) to allocate resources and services for the betterment of the citizenry.

You sacrifice pragmatism and good governance for some crackpot political and economic theories that have, by your own admission, no empirical support or historical precedence. Social experimentation at its finest!
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:27 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,008,666 times
Reputation: 1532
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Their is a difference between North Koreans who MUST stay in North Korea and Americans who CHOOSE to stay in America.
Staying in America is not always a choice. For example, I am young, educated, skilled, and employed, and after doing some research I found it would be very difficult for me to emigrate to another developed country.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: NC
6,034 posts, read 7,233,072 times
Reputation: 6333
We are no longer Capitalist.... we ceased being so... We now privatize profits, while passing losses from fraud onto the taxpayers...

both Dem's and Repub's are responsible
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: United States
5,888 posts, read 4,503,172 times
Reputation: 1906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
Staying in America is not always a choice. For example, I am young, educated, skilled, and employed, and after doing some research I found it would be very difficult for me to emigrate to another developed country.
You need a little more education about North Korea.

Here ya go...

Inside North Korea - YouTube

There is a difference between America and North Korea.
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: United States
5,888 posts, read 4,503,172 times
Reputation: 1906
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Err... except ancient Greece (democracy), and ancient Rome (republic).

The situation that was present when the US was in its infancy is no longer applicable here, and for the better... use of slave labor, child labor, indentured servitude, and the granting of FREE swaths of land by the GOVERNMENT to PEOPLE via the homestead act (perhaps the greatest forgotten act of government socialism that many conservative land owning families in the midwest and west built their present fortunes on), not to mention removal of native people so "private owners" can expand their slave plantations, etc. etc..

People like you absolutely refuse to believe that smart people can get together, and make a democratically elected decision to have a government that works for THEM in ways they WANT them to.

There is nothing per se better about getting my electricity from a municipality owned electricity provider vs. a private provider.



Anyone living in a democratic system is by definition "governs themselves." You are not living "more free" than a person in Sweden because Sweden has a bigger "nanny state" than the United States. Not one iota. You have more disposable after tax income. That's it. That's not correlative with 'freedom.'

The problem is you want to say people should NEVER be allowed to decide through the democratic process that they want to pool resources (in the form of the government) to allocate resources and services for the betterment of the citizenry.

You sacrifice pragmatism and good governance for some crackpot political and economic theories that have, by your own admission, no empirical support or historical precedence. Social experimentation at its finest!
If you think the American government works for you and is afraid of you then you need some serious help.
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:31 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,008,666 times
Reputation: 1532
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
You need a little more education about North Korea.

Here ya go...

Inside North Korea - YouTube

There is a difference between America and North Korea.
Are you just daft? You asked about emigration out of the U.S. Who cares about North Korea?
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:33 PM
 
Location: United States
5,888 posts, read 4,503,172 times
Reputation: 1906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
Are you just daft? You asked about emigration out of the U.S. Who cares about North Korea?
When I brought up the progressive utopia of North Korea and the impossibility of its citizens to freely travel you implied that your fate is similar to a North Korean.

Believe me sir, it isn't.
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:33 PM
 
3,502 posts, read 1,747,974 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
There is a difference between America and North Korea.
In many instances America refers to North and South America, so for starters you are comparing 1 country to two continents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
When I brought up the progressive utopia of North Korea
North Korea is progressive? In what universe?
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:36 PM
 
Location: United States
5,888 posts, read 4,503,172 times
Reputation: 1906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy View Post
In many instances America refers to North and South America, so for starters you are comparing 1 country to two continents.


North Korea is progressive? In what universe?
"In many instances" people with half a brain understand that "America" means "United States".
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