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Old 11-17-2011, 01:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
We didn't have this one further than one test four years ago. In fact, we only have about 10 of them ready to use now.
15 of the MOAB bunker busters. 30k lbs.
Thousands of the little bunker busters.

The UAE just took delivery of some last week.

Now the US, Israel, and the UAE have the bunker bombs.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOlover View Post
So this Bunker Buster is going to be MOAB size then?
since that is the only other bomb that I know of that needs a C-130J to drop it.

Future Weapons: MOAB - YouTube
The Moab is Badass
Have they ever even dropped a MOAB? I don't think they have. Another waste of money. It is cool though. Wish I had one to use on the 4th!!
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,909,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Yeah I was referring to this I had to dig it back up...........We sold 55 of these things to em back in '09 the gbu-28 bunker buster or "deep throat". 5K pound bomb used in the first desert storm delivered with an F-111.
"The bunker busters were a significant breakthrough. The Israelis first requested the sale in 2005, only to be rebuffed by the Bush administration. At the time, the Pentagon had frozen almost all U.S.-Israeli joint defense projects out of concern that Israel was transferring advanced military technology to China.


I didn't remember Bush being to anti-Israel.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:56 PM
 
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Old W surprises you sometimes!
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,053 posts, read 13,266,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
We already sold I think it was 400 of these things to Israel three or four years ago. They got plenty ready to go boom when they deem the time is right.
Those were GBU-28s, more or less what you'd call a 4,000 lb bomb.

They were actually designed to defeat ABRESTs (Atomic Blast Resistant Earth-covered Structures).

Those are concrete/steel reinforced structures (usually 1 to 3 meters thick) covered with 2-12 meters of earth, and they're shaped to diffuse/deflect over-pressure. They're usually designed to withstand anywhere from 10-30 psi. There's a lot of videos from the Gulf War on those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
What do they have to carry it to the target?
The Ark of the Covenant? Oh, never-mind, they lost that centuries ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
What do you think? Are we eventually going to destroy, or assist in destroying, Iran's WMD facilities?
Assuming Iran has WMD (snicker) facilities, you'd have to know where they are. You'd also have to know the geology. Iraq and Iran are geologically similar, but not identical. Outside of the Iranian Plateau, the coastal areas and some areas up north around Tehran/Tabriz, Iran is simply one gigantic Gobi Desert: a thin veneer of soil on top of rock (and lots of it). Certain types of rock absorb or diffuse energy, while other types of rock can actually function as a conduit and allow energy to pass right through it with little loss of energy. It just depends.

I don't place a lot of confidence in ridiculous claims by contractors on their hardware or weaponry.

They'd best have their crap wired tight, because if the US attacks Iran and Iran then invites the whole world to have a look/see and there is no nuclear weapons program, you'll never live that down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Somewhat related to bunker busting-

Please explain how using only dollars to price oil is so important. We buy most of our imported oil from Mexico and Canada and I do not see why they would change. How is the Middle East selling oil to the EU countries in EURO's is such a big deal?
Supply & Demand.

The value of any currency is based on its Supply & Demand in relation to the Supply & Demand of other currencies. The Demand for any currency is based in part on its usefulness, necessity and the extent of confidence that all consumers have in the currency and the government backing the currency (and the stability of its economy).

For example, in Romania we didn't have a lot of confidence in the Lei, so you paid your rent in US Dollars or German Marks (that was before the Euro existed). The smallest bank-note was a 500 Lei note and when I left to come back to the US to finish my education, the smallest bank-note was a 2,000 Lei note (because of Real Inflation). But the fact that Romanians didn't want to use their own currency was destructive, because it decreased the value of the Lei against the US Dollar and only exasperated the hyper-inflation (the Lei has since been devalued).

You dumped a lot of money into the Great Depression and WW II. You should have had massive hyper-inflation in the post-WW II era, just like you had during the Civil War following the [1st] Great Depression [of the 19th Century] and the post-Civil War era, and again during the era following the [2nd] Great Depression [of the 19th Century], then again in the post-WW I era and yet again in the post Grotesque Society/Vietnam era, but you didn't.

The reason you didn't is because of the Bretton Woods Agreement, which effectively made the US Dollar the de facto international reserve currency and the de facto international currency of trade.

The result of the Bretton Woods Agreement was that all of those $Billions of excess US Dollars in the economy were sucked out by the central banks of most of the world's countries, and then by all the world's countries because all of the world's commodities were traded in US Dollars.

That's why there was no Real Inflation.

The US and Britain repeatedly successfully blocked the ascension of all East Bloc currencies to the international market. That forced Russia and all East Block countries to buy and sell on the world market exclusively in US Dollars, and that is one reason (but not the only reason) their economies ultimately collapsed.

So the US Dollar reigns supreme and is stronger than any other currency (except the Pound Sterling) and at one point in the 1980s $1 got you 3.18 German Marks.

Then the Euro is introduced, and demand for the US Dollar declines, while demand for the Euro increases. Russia opens the Moscow Exchange and Russia now trades exclusively in Euros and Rubles, further reducing demand for the US Dollar, which drives down the value of US Dollar against other currencies.

Then Iraq starts selling oil in Euros. Can't have that, because if other OPEC countries and non-OPEC countries start selling oil in Euros or basket currencies, that will drive down the value of the US Dollar further and cause economic problems in the US.

So it comes as no surprise that every time Iran announces an oil burse, the US and Israel scream, "WMD!" until they start frothing at the mouth and falls over backwards. Iran is opening the Kish Island Exchange to sell oil in basket currencies.

Which leads us to long-term Geo-political strategy and the eastern Russian republics.

Geo-political strategy focuses on the world in the far distant future and what that world might look like. Your objective is to engage in a series of policy actions that will allow you to shape the far future to your benefit.

What do you see in the far future, 25-35 years from now?

The US as a 3rd World Country.

Why?

Does not the US control all of the oil in the Middle East? Sure it does. But what does Middle East oil and US oil have in common?

All of their fields have peaked.

The Middle East is not going to run out of oil this century, but its production will either stagnate or decline, and less Middle East oil sold in US Dollars means the value of the US Dollar will continue to decline over the long term, and that is economically harmful to you.

Central Asia has 5-7 more oil and natural gas than all of the Middle East (plus it has strategic minerals and metals) and then the eastern Russian republics have twice the oil and natural gas than Central Asia does.

Yes, the Chevron Consortium (Chevron and British Petroleum -- formerly the UNOCAL Conglomerate of UNOCAL, Chevron, Amoco and BP before Chevron bought UNOCAL and BP and Amoco merged) owns 75% of the rights to the resources in Central Asia, but they have no control over the currency in which that oil and natural gas is sold.

If you're transporting oil and natural gas via pipelines, and minerals and metal ores via rail/highway from Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan or Kazakhstan to Russia, then Russia sells it in Euros and Rubles:

The value of the US Dollar declines and you lose.

If you're transporting oil and natural gas via pipelines, and minerals and metal ores via rail/highway from Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan or Kazakhstan to Iran, then Iran sells it in basket currencies:

The value of the US Dollar declines and you lose.

You pay more for all commodities, and that's just another form of Cost Inflation which erodes the disposable income of American consumers. It will eventually effect the service sector, and there'll be more job loses.

You failed in Afghanistan.

You can't subdue the Taliban, al-Qaida or the Pushtan tribes, and because you can't, no insurance company on Earth will insure any pipelines or rail-lines through Afghanistan into Pakistan (and on to India), and no investors would be stupid enough to invest money in a losing venture that isn't even insured.

The only way you can get the oil, natural gas and strategic metals and minerals out of Central Asia and guarantee that they are sold exclusively in US Dollars is take control of Russia, or Iran.

Of the two, which is easier? Obviously Iran.

So it doesn't really matter, because even if Iran was a Christian democratic utopia with no military at all and run by Catholic nuns who were canonized, the US would still be screaming "WMDs."
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:37 PM
 
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I am sure there are many Americans that are just as exited about attacking Iran as watching the Superbowl. Here we go again, another chance to see "shock and awl" live on the TV in HD with full surround sound. We can sit back in of easy chairs and watch the body parts fly on our new HD TVs. Love those bunker busters.
Maybe this time, if there is a this time, we could get a few cameras inside so of the targets prior to bombing. That way we will be able to see the bombs explode in slow motion and watch the people inside, especially the children, burn and have their limbs shredded, blood everywhere, before the building
collapses on top of them. Yes sir, now that's good America TV.
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Old 11-17-2011, 04:57 PM
 
37,072 posts, read 38,342,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerbacon View Post
Such a waste of explosives to make a 30k conventional bomb when a small tactical nuke would do the same job or better at 1/100th the weight. I don't see what the objection would be to using a small tactical nuke that makes an undergound explosion against an underground target.
As practical matter it makes perfect sense but realistically it would set a precedent that shouldn't be set unless there is very good reason and no alternative.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:04 PM
 
29,419 posts, read 17,968,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
I am sure there are many Americans that are just as exited about attacking Iran as watching the Superbowl. Here we go again, another chance to see "shock and awl" live on the TV in HD with full surround sound. We can sit back in of easy chairs and watch the body parts fly on our new HD TVs. Love those bunker busters.
Maybe this time, if there is a this time, we could get a few cameras inside so of the targets prior to bombing. That way we will be able to see the bombs explode in slow motion and watch the people inside, especially the children, burn and have their limbs shredded, blood everywhere, before the building
collapses on top of them. Yes sir, now that's good America TV.
I say make it pay per view and help pay off the debt.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:12 PM
 
8,268 posts, read 10,384,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Exactly how are they going to station their ships off our coast? We could mop up Iran's navy in one day if we wanted to.
I agree.

Was responding to roysoldboy's insane suggestion that their Navy could somehow launch rockets deep into the US. Not only could we sink their Navy using nothing but maritime patrol aircraft, the aged secondhand frigates they do have that are (barely) deep sea worthy pose zero threat to the US mainland.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:22 PM
 
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My bad. That is true but Iran has the shahab III missile which has a capability of up to 1600 kilometers depending on the load it's carrying and that can be tipped with a nuke and could put Israel at risk. Add in the fact that the republican guard has been reportedly setting up a joint missile base in Venezuela and that should get our attention. Every little step they take gets them closer to the big step.

"According to Die Welt, Venezuela has agreed to allow Iran to establish a military base manned by Iranian missile officers, soldiers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Venezuelan missile officers. In addition, Iran has given permission for the missiles to be used in case of an "emergency". In return, the agreement states that Venezuela can use these facilities for "national needs" – radically increasing the threat to neighbors like Colombia. The German daily claims that according to the agreement, Iranian Shahab 3 (range 1300-1500 km), Scud-B (285-330 km) and Scud-C (300, 500 and 700 km) will be deployed in the proposed base. It says that Iran also pledged to help Venezuela in rocket technology expertise, including intensive training of officers"

Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S. :: Hudson New York
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