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Old 11-18-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
3,984 posts, read 3,269,197 times
Reputation: 1300

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsRock View Post
Fashion Design is nothing to sneeze at. A degree from the Fashion Institute is very highy sought after if you want a career in one of the major design houses.
Well they must not be teaching these kids anything at all .. have you seen some of the latest styles lately .. these people are not exactly creative, and grossly lack an imagination.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:08 PM
 
3,007 posts, read 3,257,787 times
Reputation: 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Wonderful post!!
Thanks. This may be a little off topic but I think it's related. In Israel, there is also a small segment of the religious society that feels that all their sons must "sit and learn" (Talmud) all day long. Think of it as an all day, every day, study hall where all you do is learn Talmud. Of course, they become rabbis in the process but the expectation is that they will be "fulltime learners" for life. Naturally, this makes no money! The wives work and support the family and are happy to do so, why? Because it's very much an ego thing for families and wives to have scholarly sons and husbands.

It's very much like the old time Catholics who wanted at least one son or one daughter to become a nun or a priest, never mind that perhaps none of the children in the family were suited to that lifestyle or had a desire to be celibate.

The tragedy is that MANY of these Jewish boys are not naturally studious and even a studious person would tire of sitting in a room all day long for the rest of their life studying one single body of work. This leads to all kinds of bad behaviors that grow out of sheer frustration, and there is a fear of disappointing one's parents.

I feel we do something similar in this country, though certainly not as extreme, when we expect all children to go to college and if they can't make it, then they are branded abject failures. Same for families that won't accept any degree that doesn't end up making a doctor or a lawyer. That same child could be a happy, creative hairdresser or whatever.

When I was young, I was very sensitive to the reality that no one in my family had gotten a college education and I didn't want to continue that blue collar legacy. I had an emotional need to rise above, but it wasn't just intellectual curiosity that drove me but also a self esteem issue and a need to prove myself worthy. I'm not sorry I got a college education and I did well academically so, fine. But I knew plenty of kids who had the opposite scenario - maybe a lot of people in their family were college educated and it was expected of them, but they just didn't have what it took to write several papers a semester and study for difficult exams. They often left college feeling pretty crummy about themselves. I hope they found their way eventually. Now I have several children and I am hoping that we will be able to give them a strong sense of themselves and their worth so that they don't run after things that won't bring them fulfilment in the long run. When I was a younger mother, I would have wanted a doctor or lawyer in the family, but now that I'm older, I'd be happier to have a carpenter and a farmer! Since the invention of the printing press, no one has to be an ignoramus just because they didn't go to college.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:13 PM
 
3,007 posts, read 3,257,787 times
Reputation: 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strel View Post
Pshaw.

I'd hire a personable, enthusiastic and helpful person with a Humanities degree over an ******* with a technical degree anytime.

A smart and well-raised person can be trained to do anything. A jerk cannot be trained to not be a jerk.

I know a guy that is CEO of a bank. He has a degree in social work. He's CEO because he's smart and hardworking and works and plays well with others.

We just hired a young lady last week who had excellent grades (she was my second choice, I wanted to hire the more personable B student).

She spent the first morning of her employment telling us what she would and would not do based on her job description. As if. We're going to fire her after Christmas.
Why wait? That seems really unfair to me! First of all, you are wasting your money and second of all, you are wasting her time and your time.

I have heard a lot about this generation and the demands they make upon employers. It's just bizarre! OMG, when I was just out of college, I was preoccupied with pleasing my boss, not asserting my "rights." I think some kids these days need a real slap down.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,009 posts, read 15,192,948 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strel View Post
A smart and well-raised person can be trained to do anything. A jerk cannot be trained to not be a jerk.
That's a bizarre and overreaching assessment without any real facts to back them up. People can mollify their overly aggressive personalities over time and through conditioning or training. I can only assume this was an emotionally charged statement?
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,009 posts, read 15,192,948 times
Reputation: 3739
Anyone do an analysis on the 99%er webcam shot one page statements and the majors they studied? From an observational perspective, it seems that the biggest complainers seeking student loan amnesty are the ones who majored in one of these 10 areas.

From what I gather, very few if any of the "we are the 99%" scribes majored in anything engineering related. In fact, many of the anti-99%er "I am the 1%" scribes have been proud of their success as a result of their technical degree.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,033 posts, read 98,948,726 times
Reputation: 31502
Quote:
Originally Posted by chariega View Post
I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with someone paying for their OWN KIDS' education? what's it you? don't most parents pay for their kids' schooling?
I think many, if not most, do pay for the majority of their kids' college educations. Again, many encourage their kids to go for scholarships and the like as well. Nothing wrong with tha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty View Post
Maybe everyone here has a valid point. Education is never a waste in that it should be fun and satisfying to learn new things, and you never know when that knowledge can come in handy. But on the flipside, it is important for young people to learn a trade or have a profession so that they can feed and shelter and clothe themselves. Many people should not go to college at all but should choose vocational school instead. I wish that we didn't have such a pretentious and arrogant attitude in this country that sends the message that if you aren't college material, you aren't smart or worthy or useful. In Israel, there are many men who are rabbis because they had the interest to pursue that line of study, but then they go to appliance repair school or carpentry school or electrician's school and learn a trade in order to support their families - because rabbis are a dime a dozen and few can get paid doing rabbinical work. No one looks down on this at all.
I don't think the attitude that one should be prepared to go to college is arrogant and/or pretentious. IMO, the education one gets in high school SHOULD prepare one to enter college, if that is one's choice. Any student with average intelligence can meet the entrance requirements for most colleges (excluding Ivy League, and some others).

Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Anyone do an analysis on the 99%er webcam shot one page statements and the majors they studied? From an observational perspective, it seems that the biggest complainers seeking student loan amnesty are the ones who majored in one of these 10 areas.

From what I gather, very few if any of the "we are the 99%" scribes majored in anything engineering related. In fact, many of the anti-99%er "I am the 1%" scribes have been proud of their success as a result of their technical degree.
Just who is seeking "amnesty" from student loans?

**************************************************

Aero, I'm still waiting for you to substantiate your accusations.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,009 posts, read 15,192,948 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Just who is seeking "amnesty" from student loans?
Then what are they seeking when they complain about their massive student loan debt? It can't be reigning in corporate greed, because the loans are backed by Uncle Sugar.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:07 PM
 
7,901 posts, read 8,630,865 times
Reputation: 3185
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty View Post
Why wait? That seems really unfair to me! First of all, you are wasting your money and second of all, you are wasting her time and your time.
That's what I said, but I don't always get listened to. The fact that she's smokin' hot probably has something to do with it. Frankly I see that as a negative and a distraction. I try to hire butt-ugly middle-aged lesbians whenever possible. Keeps the wife off my back.

Quote:
I have heard a lot about this generation and the demands they make upon employers. It's just bizarre! OMG, when I was just out of college, I was preoccupied with pleasing my boss, not asserting my "rights." I think some kids these days need a real slap down.
It's the parents. I've hired some good kids too and you can just tell which ones were raised right and which were spoiled little monsters.

Some of them have never really worked a job before graduating from college. I look for that on a resume - a history of being given responsibility by others. That is WAY more important to me than grades, which frankly I put little faith in, or what degree they have.

When I was younger I got jobs over other people a lot, because I could show a history of being given serious responsibility at a very young age.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:09 PM
 
7,901 posts, read 8,630,865 times
Reputation: 3185
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
That's a bizarre and overreaching assessment without any real facts to back them up.
I've been hiring and firing people for 20 years. That's my backup.

Quote:
People can mollify their overly aggressive personalities over time and through conditioning or training. I can only assume this was an emotionally charged statement?
No, it isn't. While I certainly believe that people can change over time, some really can't. Medication can treat a lot of stuff, but people with significant characterlogical issues are not worth the effort. Ever.

If they can't work and play well with others, they are worthless, expendable and probably worse - they are a liability. You play for the team, or you don't play. Period.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,033 posts, read 98,948,726 times
Reputation: 31502
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Then what are they seeking when they complain about their massive student loan debt? It can't be reigning in corporate greed, because the loans are backed by Uncle Sugar.
Everyone likes to complain about money. Before you make a statement that 20somethings are demanding "amnesty", you might be prepared to back that up.
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