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Old 11-18-2011, 07:05 PM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,144,884 times
Reputation: 1831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekester View Post
Please don't mistake me for another whale.to enthusiast. I just want clarification of your above statement in red. I thought that actually getting a disease like chicken pox for example produces lifelong immunity whereas some vaccines require boosters for continued resistance. Am I wrong?

Nope you're not wrong at all . And even when you get the actual disease, you may not be immune from it 100%. You may get relapses or even catch the disease again (like Chicken Pox, getting it again, or getting shingles)

 
Old 11-18-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,091 posts, read 10,486,058 times
Reputation: 4104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Eleanora, what are you hoping for? Does Censorship serve your agenda? Why, yes it does!

You fear folks being fed facts that disprove your beliefs.
It's just that simple.

You fear folks having a "buffet of ideas."

Sounds like what public schools have become. They, one would think and expect should be offering kids ALL type of thought, but nope...

Condoms on bananas in schools are fine, but any mere mention of God, or the FACTS that our nation's founders based their work of founding on their faith in Him, worshipped together, etc....is CENSORED.

Dear Lady, this thread has brought "the rest of the story" per immunization and it will be bringing more.
Folks can decide for themselves, just as my Opening, Thread Comments clearly said.

Happy Thanksgiving~
Wow, you have such little knowledge about a subject that when you can't just copy crap off Whale.to after a severe mocking...you just start babbling about completely unrelated subjects in your own thread. I have seen little children have a better understanding and base their world views on more concrete facts then this. This isn't even really funny anymore, that's just pathetically sad.

Just a reminder, disagreeing isn't censorship...unless you redefine the first amendment in some bizarre way. People try it, which is why it made #8 on the 2010 saddest internet argument techniques.
 
Old 11-18-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Terra firma
1,374 posts, read 1,311,589 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Eleanora, what are you hoping for? Does Censorship serve your agenda? Why, yes it does!

You fear folks being fed facts that disprove your beliefs.
It's just that simple.

You fear folks having a "buffet of ideas."

Sounds like what public schools have become. They, one would think and expect should be offering kids ALL type of thought, but nope...

Condoms on bananas in schools are fine, but any mere mention of God, or the FACTS that our nation's founders based their work of founding on their faith in Him, worshipped together, etc....is CENSORED.

Dear Lady, this thread has brought "the rest of the story" per immunization and it will be bringing more.
Folks can decide for themselves, just as my Opening, Thread Comments clearly said.

Happy Thanksgiving~
You do realize that many of the most influential Founding Fathers were Deists rather than Christian don't you? I mean the big ones: George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson to name a few. Really, I'm not making this up. The truth is out there... seek and ye shall find.
 
Old 11-18-2011, 07:08 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,153 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekester View Post
Please don't mistake me for another whale.to enthusiast. I just want clarification of your above statement in red. I thought that actually getting a disease like chicken pox for example produces lifelong immunity whereas some vaccines require boosters for continued resistance. Am I wrong?
Depends on the disease and the vaccine.



Many diseases produce life long immunity as do many vaccines.

Chicken pox is an interesting example. You can get chicken pox more than once if the original case you get isn't strong enough to produce immunity. Shingles, for example, is a version of adult chicken pox and a very painful one at that. I plan on getting the vaccine once I reach that age as I had a very nasty case of cp when I was a child. Chicken pox vaccine boosters are also designed to make sure you maintain immunity.

It really depends on the individual in question as well. Some unlucky people simply won't produce enough antigens to get immune. They rely on us to help protect them.

Other vaccines, like measles, are estimated to be good for your entire life. You can get certain diseases, like whooping cough, more than once. A shot can help not only drastically reduce the odds of you getting many diseases, but also reduce the severity of the disease if you get it.

It really varies and depends on both the disease and the vaccine in question. I'm not a scientist but I'll be happy to try to answer questions you might have. Hopefully a few other posters like Katiana and Suzy will show up as well. They really know their stuff.
 
Old 11-18-2011, 07:11 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,153 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Eleanora, what are you hoping for? Does Censorship serve your agenda? Why, yes it does!

You fear folks being fed facts that disprove your beliefs.
It's just that simple.

You fear folks having a "buffet of ideas."

Sounds like what public schools have become. They, one would think and expect should be offering kids ALL type of thought, but nope...

Condoms on bananas in schools are fine, but any mere mention of God, or the FACTS that our nation's founders based their work of founding on their faith in Him, worshipped together, etc....is CENSORED.

Dear Lady, this thread has brought "the rest of the story" per immunization and it will be bringing more.
Folks can decide for themselves, just as my Opening, Thread Comments clearly said.

Happy Thanksgiving~
We are not censoring you. We are trying to stop you from spreading ignorance as well as diseases. When you stand in favor of horrors like cervical cancer, measles, mumps and whooping cough you cannot expect to go unchallenged.
 
Old 11-18-2011, 07:31 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 6,488,804 times
Reputation: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
People most certainly DO get sick from a shot! Folks that aren't sick all year get sick days after the shot. Year after year, and you desperately want to think of it as a coincidence?

No way do many folks buy it, well, since unlike you they live what I am speaking of, and it is fact.

Quotes matter, and yes, in the context of "Pro or Con, to Vaccinate."

Nice try but you have not helped prove the efficacy of the immunizations one iota.
You are not understanding what immune responses are. Being sick and feeling sick are actually two different things.

Put forward some credible links that aren't just quote mines. Again, you can't find any .edu or .org websites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Eleanora, what are you hoping for? Does Censorship serve your agenda? Why, yes it does!

You fear folks being fed facts that disprove your beliefs.
It's just that simple.

You fear folks having a "buffet of ideas."

Sounds like what public schools have become. They, one would think and expect should be offering kids ALL type of thought, but nope...

Condoms on bananas in schools are fine, but any mere mention of God, or the FACTS that our nation's founders based their work of founding on their faith in Him, worshipped together, etc....is CENSORED.

Dear Lady, this thread has brought "the rest of the story" per immunization and it will be bringing more.
Folks can decide for themselves, just as my Opening, Thread Comments clearly said.

Happy Thanksgiving~
You fear folks being fed facts that disprove your beliefs.
It's just that simple.

Sounds familiar?
 
Old 11-19-2011, 01:21 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 2,889,675 times
Reputation: 1948
Eleanora, you are insinuating that censorship is what is needed by not liking what I have brought here. Good grief, that type of mindset should go to DC (if the few posting it aren't already there!) and help swipe our world, schools and internet free of any ideas that you/they feel threatened by.

I HAD mumps and both types of measles, and am glad that I did! No shots, no risks, and I, as I said without exaggeration have a fantastic immune system.

However, I know that the shots are simply us trading one set of childhood "diseases" for some True! childhood diseases--diabetes, asthma and childhood cancers. Now we have Autism that arrived many years after those three.

I saw a timeline in a book back in the eighties. I wish I had kept the name of it. It drew a Timeline that started in the early fifties and went to sometime in the eighties, graphing the amount of children in our country with those big, three diseases that I named, with the incidence being how many cases per each 100,000 kids in the population.

Guess what? in the late fifties to early sixties, that line started going up and went up dramatically-- In harmony with the dates/years when we increased the shot schedules!! I am telling it like it is.

I have, with my many years of research had the data absolutely convince me and I therefore know with certainty that the "status quo" of Medicine and Big Pharma is refusing to bring forth the data, in fear of what could happen if more parents refuse the shots. Already, like homeschooling, they can't even accurately log how very many children don't have the shots-just like they can't truly count how many children are homeschooled.

A society that has the right, the CHOICE to abort its babies should also equally have the CHOICE to immunize, or not, the babies that it allows to be born.

I am true pro choice, not like the lieing liberals that claim to be, and yet they are more likely to be the folks that try to force immunization.
THIS is the true definition of freedom, leaving it all between each person, and their conscience.

Last edited by Sunnysee; 11-19-2011 at 01:34 AM..
 
Old 11-19-2011, 07:51 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,153 times
Reputation: 2345
What you're bringing here is an attempt to argue people out of disease prevention methods. Why would anyone sane like that?



What you "know" is nonsense. Your decision to argue against vaccination does NOT just affect you. Frankly if I did I wouldn't care as I personally think that people dumb enough to argue against vaccination deserve vaccine preventable diseases. The problem is that such diseases are contagious. You have no inherent right to attempt to compromise public health.

The diseases in question are not on the rise no matter what your awful sources assert. What you're seeing is merely changing diagnostic criteria. Here's what science says about autism:

Science-Based Medicine The Increase in Autism Diagnoses: Two Hypotheses

A new study sheds more light on the question of what is causing the recent increase in the rate of diagnosis of autism. Professor Dorothy Bishop from the University of Oxford studied adults who were diagnosed in 1980 with a developmental language disorder. She asked the question if these people were subjected to current diagnostic criteria for autism, how many of them would be diagnosed today as having autism? She found that 25% of them would. (Bishop 2008)

Society has the right and even the duty to protect itself against ill informed people arguing in favor of disease. Go read the links I provided and go away. As a famous cartoonist wrote, ignorance is not a point of view. It certainly isn't a civil right.
 
Old 11-19-2011, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Depends on the disease and the vaccine.



Many diseases produce life long immunity as do many vaccines.

Chicken pox is an interesting example. You can get chicken pox more than once if the original case you get isn't strong enough to produce immunity. Shingles, for example, is a version of adult chicken pox and a very painful one at that. I plan on getting the vaccine once I reach that age as I had a very nasty case of cp when I was a child. Chicken pox vaccine boosters are also designed to make sure you maintain immunity.

It really depends on the individual in question as well. Some unlucky people simply won't produce enough antigens to get immune. They rely on us to help protect them.

Other vaccines, like measles, are estimated to be good for your entire life. You can get certain diseases, like whooping cough, more than once. A shot can help not only drastically reduce the odds of you getting many diseases, but also reduce the severity of the disease if you get it.

It really varies and depends on both the disease and the vaccine in question. I'm not a scientist but I'll be happy to try to answer questions you might have. Hopefully a few other posters like Katiana and Suzy will show up as well. They really know their stuff.
Thank you. I have been avoiding this thread, after my intitial foray to question TOS violations. I guess we don't have any moderating going on.

Chickenpox is a funny disease in that one can get it twice. It's rare, but it happens, and usually the second case is much lighter. It was discovered that some people get chickenpox disease after one dose of vaccine, a similar situation. These cases are almost always lighter (as close to always as you can get in medicine, LOL). That's why a booster is recommended.

Shingles is a reactivation of the chickenpox virus that a person already has in their nerve tissue, from previous chickenpox disease or, sadly, from previous immunization as chickenpox vaccine is a live vaccine. However, there are fewer cases of shingles in immunized people vs people who have had chickenpox disease.

Whooping cough is another one, mentioned above, that one can get more than once. My daughter got it at age 13, after her shots wore off. Her case was lighter than full-blown pertussis, but she still was sick and missed a couple days of school.

It used to be you couldn't give pertussis vaccine to people over age 7. Now, there is a new vaccine that people ages 7+ can get. Currently, one lifetime dose is recommended. You still need boosters of tetanus and diptheria every 10 years as well (the other components of DTP vaccine).

ETA: There is absolutely no difference in antibodies produced in response to vaccine, and those produced in response to disease. Sometimes natural disease confers a stronger immune response, but that is at the expense of side effects such as illness, crippling, deafness, mentally retardation, etc. Some people actually die from these diseases.
 
Old 11-19-2011, 02:48 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 2,889,675 times
Reputation: 1948
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
Wow, you have such little knowledge about a subject that when you can't just copy crap off Whale.to after a severe mocking...you just start babbling about completely unrelated subjects in your own thread. I have seen little children have a better understanding and base their world views on more concrete facts then this. This isn't even really funny anymore, that's just pathetically sad.

Just a reminder, disagreeing isn't censorship...unless you redefine the first amendment in some bizarre way. People try it, which is why it made #8 on the 2010 saddest internet argument techniques.

Wow, there's none so blind as those that refuse to see!

What each of the few that are reacting to what I have posted here, ARE doing...like a rose by any other name still being a rose....

is suggesting censorship! Reacting to the information posted, REACTING to the mere stated opinions of medical experts that disagree with their/your own Medical Experts.

It is, whether you can see it or admit it, or not precisely the suggestion of censorship--wishing for me to not BRING these opinions and quotes of what these Doctors, scientists, etc...have experienced along with the conclusions they have drawn from their own professional experiences, and research efforts, etc.

Just sign me- truly open-minded, unthreatened by opposing belief systems, and more PRO-CHOICE than most folks.
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