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Old 11-18-2011, 09:30 AM
 
12,620 posts, read 17,742,982 times
Reputation: 2988

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
You are confusing Socialism with the Socialist Party.

The current party platform of the Socialist Democratic Party believes in democratic freedom and social justice. In other words, they believe in free markets but liberal social safety nets.
Hillary stated from cradle to grave. Healthcare and other social programs are a step in that a direction. Just look at California and other Liberal run states and all of the laws that they are imposing, how disastrous the states are being run and how much they owe and cannot pay.
That is Americas future if these yahoos have their way.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:31 AM
 
7,629 posts, read 4,097,971 times
Reputation: 2898
You are confusing an extensive social programs with socialism. Germany is very much a free-market system. The countries I sighted originally, have more extensive social programs without a free-market system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Germany has a very Socialist government and they are doing fine, in fact they are doing better than we are.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:34 AM
 
7,629 posts, read 4,097,971 times
Reputation: 2898
Yeah, well my uncle was Milton Friedman, so I know economics better than anyone else. Sorry, doesn't increase your credibility. Your comment smacks of. "I'm the expert, you'd be silly to disagree with me."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Yes, free market, but they ARE still a Socalist country, I know this to be a FACT, I was born there, have relatives there, and travel back to visit and on business at least every couple of years.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,009 posts, read 15,249,041 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Yes, free market, but they ARE still a Socalist country, I know this to be a FACT, I was born there, have relatives there, and travel back to visit and on business at least every couple of years.
Your travel plans are inconsequential to the facts. It's a free market system, not a socialist country. East Germany was a socialist country.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: The High Seas
7,174 posts, read 12,796,995 times
Reputation: 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mon View Post
Yes, those counties have what can be called over generous social services. Especially when you consider that the general populations doesn't pay their taxes to pay for those benefits. Italy has always been a large economy basket case. Spain was a fascist dictatorship until the 1980's and Greece was almost like a developing country that had no business joining the Euro.

Bad and loose economic policy combined with high spending, government corruption and low tax receipts is what got these countries to this point.
A couple of things that need correcting here. Italy is one of the top 10 largest economies in the world.
Franco died in 1975 and in no time the country was wildly democratic.
Greece would never be considered a "developing nation".
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,237 posts, read 13,403,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Your travel plans are inconsequential to the facts. It's a free market system, not a socialist country. East Germany was a socialist country.
I love it when so-called experts prove they don't know squat, as several of you have already done. I would suggest you read more and post less, then you could avoid posting on threads such as this Failure of a thread and be made to look foolish. Everything was going just great until the fly, Germany, got thrown into the soup. Enjoy your soup.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:14 PM
 
30,013 posts, read 15,364,572 times
Reputation: 15725
Replacing Berlusconi with Monti is to be considered turning one's back on "left and left of center" government, now?
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:46 PM
 
11,323 posts, read 16,882,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Yes, free market, but they ARE still a Socalist country, I know this to be a FACT, I was born there, have relatives there, and travel back to visit and on business at least every couple of years.
Then you should know its run by the CDU.

And using Free Market and Socialist in the same sentence makes you sound a bit bloed.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:19 PM
 
4,414 posts, read 3,239,674 times
Reputation: 2319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snort View Post
A couple of things that need correcting here. Italy is one of the top 10 largest economies in the world.
Franco died in 1975 and in no time the country was wildly democratic.
Greece would never be considered a "developing nation".
I know, they are a large economy, but still a basket case. As an Italian friend of mine says, "Italy is poor, Italians are rich."

I stand corrected about Spain. the transition to democracy was in 1978.

Greece, outside of the tourist areas is poor and for years they've a corrupt and barely functioning bureaucracy.
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Old 11-20-2011, 02:56 PM
 
7,629 posts, read 4,097,971 times
Reputation: 2898
In the beginning
Beyond characterizing Greece, Italy and Spain as left or left of center governments, I did not suggest any of the aforementioned countries were socialist, or not. Nor did I try to define what is and is not socialist. What's the point? If you are up to your eyeballs in debt, does it make a difference what you call it, just as long as you stop doing what got you into debt in the first place.

A digressive hijack technique was used by another poster to turn the subject to economic systems debate, rather than discussing those countries debt issues, and how they were predictive of the U.S. in a few years. That is a label that people like to fight over.

The causes of their debt-burden discussion
What the original post was about is the well documented restrictive and overbearing, (to economic growth) labor laws, and their creeping effect, over the past few decades on the respective economies. Try to stay on topic and discuss whether or not you agree Italy, Greece and Spain's labor laws have, or have not, over time, constrained growth, and added to each of these country's debt to GDP ratio. My premise as stated in the title of the OP is that we are headed in the same direction, though in some ways, by different means.

I provided two sources that I chose because they were relatively non-political. Any of you are welcome to provide other sources.

Try to leave the insults at the door step, please.
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