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Old 11-18-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities, MN
780 posts, read 440,789 times
Reputation: 220

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Ah, so they have to be SOLELY altruistic? In that case why aren't we giving nukes to Saudi Arabia?

Non-proliferation is a HUGE international issue, it's not ironic and certainly not a US only issue.
I see that you like to invent positions for your debate opponents. That's called arguing with straw-men, just as an FYI. I never said it was a US only issue. If you want to speak to me like a child, I suggest you find an actual child to dazzle with your BS.

Go ahead and pretend that the US hasn't been the main impetus behind NP talks. I operate under no such illusion. Your tenor was that the US was some great savior/hero in this, and now you're back-peddling and saying it isn't about being altruistic.

The cold facts are, we used them on others, and we are and have been the main impetus behind these treaties.

Irony. It's not my fault if you cannot grasp the concept.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: The High Seas
7,148 posts, read 12,750,627 times
Reputation: 10978
Every household should have one. Keep away from children though.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:06 PM
 
11,311 posts, read 16,829,769 times
Reputation: 5531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill View Post
America believes in self-determination... oh wait...

I've always found it a bit ironic that the country who has actually used these devices on other people thinks that they get to decide who we should trust to have these devices.
In case you do not read the papers or follow world events, and I take it you do not, pretty much the entire world does not want them to have nuclear weapons.

So scoop the irony up and use it another time.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities, MN
780 posts, read 440,789 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
In case you do not read the papers or follow world events, and I take it you do not, pretty much the entire world does not want them to have nuclear weapons.

So scoop the irony up and use it another time.
Yeah, the US is the world leader out one side of the mouth and just part of a coalition out the other.

Again, straw-man. I've never said that the US was alone. I've never said that I want Iran to have nukes, for that matter. I am pointing out the SIMPLE irony that the country who used them is one of the leaders (if not the biggest, currently) deciding who gets to have them.

No, I don't hate my own country because of it, and I am no pacifist, so don't even go there. I am just a realist who isn't afraid to be honest about our history, something that seems to be in short supply these days.

By the way, there are at least a couple of countries who probably wouldn't mind Iran having nukes. So you can save your platitude about keeping up with current events, thank you kindly. Plank meet speck.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:15 PM
 
11,311 posts, read 16,829,769 times
Reputation: 5531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill View Post
Yeah, the US is the world leader out one side of the mouth and just part of a coalition out the other.

Again, straw-man. I've never said that the US was alone. I've never said that I want Iran to have nukes, for that matter. I am pointing out the SIMPLE irony that the country who used them is one of the leaders (if not the biggest, currently) deciding who gets to have them.

No, I don't hate my own country because of it, and i am no pacifist, so don't even go there. I am just a realist who isn't afraid to be honest about our history, something that seems to be in short supply these days.
In other words you are all over the map and do not have a point.

And I never said anything about you hating your country and I do not give a crap if you do. Talk about strawman arguments...
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities, MN
780 posts, read 440,789 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
In other words you are all over the map and do not have a point.

And I never said anything about you hating your country and I do not give a crap if you do. Talk about strawman arguments...
No, you didn't, which should have been obvious if you understood my context. Oh well... I was simply preparing for the nearly inevitable grunting from the resident trogs about how I hate America for speaking honestly about our history.

That's a poor debate tactic by the way, calling your opponent "all over the map" Just laziness. Dodge, when all else fails, I guess.

yawn.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:36 PM
 
11,311 posts, read 16,829,769 times
Reputation: 5531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill View Post
No, you didn't, which should have been obvious if you understood my context. Oh well... I was simply preparing for the nearly inevitable grunting from the resident trogs about how I hate America for speaking honestly about our history.

That's a poor debate tactic by the way, calling your opponent "all over the map" Just laziness. Dodge, when all else fails, I guess.

yawn.
Some truth to that.

I am too lazy or otherwise preoccuppied to answer multiple, unrelated points as they would merely spawn more. Hence the justified definition of all over the map. Disingenous would also apply.

And you have not spoken honestly. You took a justified action (it was WWII) and tried to link it to a contemporary issue (Iran). A couple of us told you why that was invalid.

America has done plenty of crap in the past and even the present. Nuking Imperial/Fascist Japan to end WWII faster and save lives does not meet the definition. Wishing an unpredictable, violent country run by crazies like Iran not to have nukes does not meet the definition either.

Indeed, why the hell would anyone not look askew at Iran possessing nukes unless they had nefarious or idiotic agendas?

There it is.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:16 PM
 
47,314 posts, read 24,662,808 times
Reputation: 14471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooperkat View Post
I don't have any problem with the U.S. telling Iran that there are costs associated with their nuclear ambitions. It's not a good idea for them to have a bomb. The Mullahs are nuts enough to use it - just to accelerate the coming of Allah.

Even if they never use the bomb - they should have to pay an economic price for having it. Sanctions.

If Iran learned how to get along with the rest of the world - they could prosper without a nuclear bomb.

Israel wouldn't have any desire to attack Iran if Iran wasn't so Hell bent on wiping Israelis off the face of the Earth.
What evidence do you have that the mullahs are "crazy enough to use it?"

What mullah that you know of has ever had a nuke and used it? "The coming of Allah?" Boy...you've bought it all, lock, stock and barrel.

And when did the Iranians say they wanted to wipe Israel off of the face of the Earth?
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:21 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 2,892,920 times
Reputation: 1948
If I were a content, Govt. Official in Iran, yes.

If I were a citizen of this country, having a Religious-Nut for a leader, no. Those merely "living in Iran" are also in much danger since their religious-whackjob of a leader is getting what he plans to use--nukes.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:35 PM
 
47,314 posts, read 24,662,808 times
Reputation: 14471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
If I were a content, Govt. Official in Iran, yes.

If I were a citizen of this country, having a Religious-Nut for a leader, no. Those merely "living in Iran" are also in much danger since their religious-whackjob of a leader is getting what he plans to use--nukes.
Nonsense. Ahmadinejad doesn't have the power to determine what he eats for lunch, much less to determine when to use a nuke.
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