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Old 11-19-2011, 01:16 PM
 
20,629 posts, read 19,289,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geofra View Post
Why not silver? Why not "name-a-commodity"?

Serious question here. I want to know why gold is the commodity of choice for backing the dollar. Is it because of tradition? Because it is more valuable than any other commodity?

Enlighten this fiat-washed brain, please.

Because it is a small enough commodity to be controlled by a small group of people. This will allow them to protect you from bad people.
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Nixon got us off the Gold Standard, not Wilson.

Nixon got us off the international gold standard.

Quote:
Nixon & Carter had this nation on it's way to bankruptcy. At least the Fed had high interest rates to really show where we were.

Now Bush & Obama have us headed toward bankruptcy and the fed has played its last card.
Not checkmate yet, but he lost his queen.
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I agree. Backing a currency with just gold isn't feasible anymore. There's not enough gold in the world to pay off our debt, for one, and two, the price of gold can still be manipulated so it's not foolproof either. I prefer the old English Tally Sticks. Just as good as gold, without the problems an only gold-backed currency represents. Hell, even the Roman Republic or Empire didn't use gold for their currency. They used bronze

Does the US intend to monopolize the world gold supply?

The exact percentage of gold in the hands of foreign countries will immediately own that share of the United States. Why not just hand them over everything West of the Mississippi?


Come on gold bugs, tell us how you are going to deal with that.

One thing about gold bugs is they are very short on details. All you get is:

"Gold has been used throughout history"

( actually false since silver was the money of Europe and copper the money of Rome)

"Gold is stable"

(actually false since it leads to depressions and hoarding)

"Gold is honest money"

(actually false since the gold smith's invented fractional reserves)

Then they run out of things to say especially when you bring up even auditing the stuff just in Fort Knox. Who are we going to trust with the gold? They cannot explain how electronic money will work, or how people will even know about iron pyrite.


Its either a simple fiat system a 5th grader can understand with the amount of currency published by the minute along with publicly viewable accounts or free banking.

Personally I think M1 and M2 should be this public currency. Private transactions can turn to the free banking market where the market will offer what ever solution it dreams up.
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:36 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
People seem to be misunderstanding the phrase 'Gold Standard' - it is a general concept that is being promoted - A Commodity backed currency - or Sound Money. There is nothing wrong with having two or three metals as the backing. But do not confuse this with Bi-metallism or Tri-metallism which does not allow them to free float. If not they can be manipulated and they were because the government fixed the ratio eventually giving them the needed problems to go completely off it. You can not have sound money if you fix the ratio between commodities.

The system we have now no matter what problems the Gold standard has is corrupt to the bone. We need ecomonic freedom and sound money.
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,111,175 times
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[image of goose cooked]
We can't go on with debt-credit money tokens, borrowed into existence, at usury.
We can't go back to gold / silver coin, because there is not enough bullion, and it can't grow with the economy.
We can't allow usury because it requires an infinitely growing money token supply.
We are [expletive deleted]

http://www.ozmirage.org/anic/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=4 (broken link)
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:32 PM
 
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What a bunch of special interest rhetorical propaganda in this thread ...

FIAT EMPIRE - Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. Constitution

Ill continue to invest in silver and gold, you guys keep stockpiling your Fed. Reserve notes, and in 10 years lets see who come out on top?
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
People seem to be misunderstanding the phrase 'Gold Standard' - it is a general concept that is being promoted - A Commodity backed currency - or Sound Money. There is nothing wrong with having two or three metals as the backing. But do not confuse this with Bi-metallism or Tri-metallism which does not allow them to free float. If not they can be manipulated and they were because the government fixed the ratio eventually giving them the needed problems to go completely off it. You can not have sound money if you fix the ratio between commodities.

The system we have now no matter what problems the Gold standard has is corrupt to the bone. We need ecomonic freedom and sound money.


A lot of these are what I would call a free-yacht money system. I can see why people would be confused by a gold standard when you are not using primarily gold. Then say Bimetallism. However if you believe in da guberment, why not have them issue a debt free currency? If you don't, then why do you want them to start making legal tender laws?


Now when its fractional reserve "lending" we are looking at free-yacht money.I am glad that perhaps one person in 30 might get a coin in a panic but for the other 29 it would be far worse.

If you had free banking than any one with fungible assets could monetize it , and competitive issuers would typically punish those who tried to create too many notes. We would also see much of it redeemed for its use-value.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 11-19-2011 at 02:49 PM..
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
What a bunch of special interest rhetorical propaganda in this thread ...

FIAT EMPIRE - Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. Constitution

Ill continue to invest in silver and gold, you guys keep stockpiling your Fed. Reserve notes, and in 10 years lets see who come out on top?
Go ahead. I am a gold and silver owner myself. Why do you want da guberment to make a standard out of it? You want them to set prices and/or confiscate that for ya? All we need to do is have them create a standard, regulate prices and then just have the commercial banks create fiat money all over again as they show 30 people the same gold bar via camera on a feed back loop.
All it will do is destroy the free secondary market and refuge we have now.
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Can you stop the idiotic BS of, "if you don't believe in X, then you must be working for the other side!" Thanks.
You can have any opinion you want to have, and embrace whatever ideological position that seems right to you ... but that's not the same thing as making flatly false claims which is what you've been doing ... twice now, in defense of Fiat money ... and that's not an opinion, that is a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Why on earth do you stick to something that can still be manipulated on the international market anyway? With gold being in such short supply, it can NEVER support any large economy, and countries will go to war to increase their reserves if there's not any left. The rich bankers can buy up gold on the international markets, and send the price crashing down, destroying the dollar. You can't monetize ONE metal, you have to monetize multiple metals. Putting it in perspective, there's not enough gold in the world to pay off the fraudulent national debt.
That's not true either, there is plenty of gold in the world, the only problem is that about 500 Trillion worth of it has been stolen and is sitting in a Rothschild vault complex ... it just needs to be returned to it's rightful owners, and the thieves arrested and put behind bars where they belong. That gold went somewhere? Unlike Silver which is used and lost through industrial usage, the majority of gold is not used up (very small quantities are actually used for industry purposes) ... a portion is used for jewelry and majority is stored as accumulated wealth. So it still exists ... it didn't fly to the Moon.

The other point is, ANYTHING can be manipulated, and I honestly can't imagine how there could be more manipulation than exists now, for crying out loud. The ENTIRE SYSTEM IS IMPLODING ... WORLDWIDE, with more debt than there is fiat money in existence to pay for that debt. And this should be a big clue ... how did debt become larger than the total amount of money in existence? Because the very first debt based fiat dollar created more debt than there was money in existence to pay it. If ONLY One Dollar was created at 3% interest ... the amount owed would be $1.03 ... but there would only be $1 in existence. Where do you get the 3 pennies to pay the interest if they don't exist? Well, you have to borrow that too, which creates more debt ... and the cycle continues to infinity. Worse yet, the more money you create, the more devalued the money becomes, until the money is worthless, but the debt still remains! IT'S A FRAUD .. A PONZI SCHEME that makes Bernie Madoff look like a Sunday School teacher.

As for Bill Still ... I like some of what he says and agree with certain points, particularly the fractional reserve fraud ... but he's just plain wrong on the part about not needing anything to back the currency .. he's wrong, because the only way to guarantee the value of the currency is protected to any degree is to have currency that has intrinsic value of it's own.

He claimed (in your last posted video starting at 22:46) that it is not important to have something backing the currency but only the amount of currency created and put into circulation. He's half-right .... the answer is BOTH ... and what backs the currency helps to regulate and restrict how much of it is created, which keeps inflation in check.

I agree that the creation of the money should definitely be done by the federal government and not a private central bank posing as a federal entity. But I really don't see where Mr. Still gets his faith from in believing that the government would control themselves any more than they don't do now with regard to the amount of money they would create out of thin air, even with the Federal Reserve completely out of the picture. Why would anyone believe such a thing? If they wanted to go to war, they'd just create more money ... if they wanted to promise voters the moon in order to be elected (just like they do now) they'd still do it and just print more money to pay for those promises. Nothing would really change.

The only way to keep the money makers (whoever that is) from creating vast amounts of money out of thin air is to not allow them to do it at all. And the only way to do that is to require that every dollar created has gold and silver to back it. And the only way to get that metal is either dig it out of the ground, or acquire it through production and foreign trade. And that last part is critical ... and another positive element in a gold & silver backed currency ... it encourages domestic production and foreign trade if the government wants to create more money .. they have to do so HONESTLY .. by EARNING IT.

The most critical part of all of this is that the US National debt that is currently claimed to be owed (15 Trillion) is fraudulent debt ... the legal name would be "Odious Debt" which describes debt that was created which did not serve the interests of the people for which the debtor claims owes it.

We've been defrauded, and our real assets stolen, and replaced by worthless paper. That's why there probably isn't any gold in Fort Knox or anywhere else in the country ... it's been stolen by the gangster cartel masquerading as the Federal Reserve, the World Bank, and the IMF, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and others ... all subsidiary agents of the Rothschild Cartel ... which is where you'll likely find OUR STOLEN GOLD & SILVER ... in the hands of the Rothschilds.

Seize the FED, including it's assets which were acquired by fraud, and return it to the US Treasury. Then issue an ultimatum to the Rothschild Gangsters ... return 500 Trillion in Gold stolen from us and everyone else over the past 100 years (since 1913), or face the consequences of us coming in and taking it back by military force, which will include criminal prosecution of the thieves. Think Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya ... only this time it will be not a country ... just the cartel HQ, and it's 500 Trillion in assets vaulted away. Give it back, and avoid spending the rest of your lives in Guantanamo Bay Cuba!

Problems solved. And there would be PLENTY of Gold to divvy back out to all of the nations around the world who have been similarly pillaged. Reestablish the US Dollar as an ounce of silver, and backed by Gold, keep it as the world reserve currency and establish reasonable fixed exchange rates with all countries wanting to participate, and the world economy would be fixed real fast.

Of course, that isn't going to happen ... but that is the solution. Anything else is just more smoke & mirrors.
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:04 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 8,740,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Go ahead. I am a gold and silver owner myself. Why do you want da guberment to make a standard out of it? You want them to set prices and/or confiscate that for ya? All we need to do is have them create a standard, regulate prices and then just have the commercial banks create fiat money all over again as they show 30 people the same gold bar via camera on a feed back loop.
All it will do is destroy the free secondary market and refuge we have now.
Defending a fraudulent fiat currency by claiming that an honest currency based on gold or silver(or other resource standard) would be handled fraudulently by the banks is a disingenuous argument.

It is not the fault of the currency itself in that case, as is the case for any fiat currency without true standardization, but the fault of corruption in the system.

The fact is, and has always been, any monetary system that employs fiat currency without standardization will inevitably end up causing hyper-inflation, what is happening all over the world right now ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-19-2011 at 04:11 PM..
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