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Old 11-20-2011, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,937,493 times
Reputation: 27520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Not having a deal is the best thing that could happen. It means automatic cuts in the few trillions, which is what we desperately need. But, despite all the media hype, a deal WILL be reached on the 11th hour. Just watch. This is all just theater
And even the deal at the 11th hour will echo with familiar words...

" X trillion of dollars cut from "future" spending over xx years but not starting until xx years into the future". That means NO spending cuts to current outlays.
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:14 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 2,965,129 times
Reputation: 1669
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
I don't believe that there are any taxes or loopholes that are going to be part of the trigger, though. Maybe I'm misinformed. I thought it was the cuts that were automatically set to kick in. If that's the case, then there's no incentive for the GOP to comply...unless they're afraid the cuts might send tens of thousands to the unemployment line and that the very dim, flickering light bulb in the head of the average American just might start to burn a little brighter.

Even so, it's not clear what's going to be cut, and when. The cuts aren't going to occur at midnight next Thursday; it's simply the existing budget law of the land at that time. Some of the cuts won't occur until a year from now, although the effects will be felt before then as budget planning begins.
No, you're not misinformed. I forgot to mention that the way the deal is structured, the automatic cuts coincide with expiration of the Bush tax cuts in December 2012. There is no way Obama will sign of on extending these.

What will be interesting now is watching how Congress will attempt to apply the cuts, while preserving locally beneficial programs, in an election year. In this situation the Executive Branch will have the advantage. All Democrats will need to do is hold their ground, then cut spending programs that Republicans favor (ie, farming subsidies).
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:01 PM
JRR
 
Location: Algood/Cookeville TN
3,152 posts, read 1,901,214 times
Reputation: 4364
What else could be expected from a congress that is paralyzed by fear of special interest groups? Grover Norquist is making the Republicans swear that not a dollar of new taxes for anyone and the AARP holding their vast membership over the head of any Democrat who would even think of a dollar of change to Medicare/Social Security. Add in all the other organizations like the NAR who spend large amounts of money to make sure that their interests are met first. You would have to be a pretty strong congressperson to go against any of those and put the best interest of the country as a whole as your priority. And one thing we certainly do not seem to have in Washington at this time are strong people in Congress
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:16 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
1,282 posts, read 1,560,255 times
Reputation: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
The best option for the budget ironically is to let it fail. 600 billion in defense cuts and lets the bush tax cuts expire.
I kind of agree with that.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:20 PM
 
Location: The Brightest City On Earth
1,282 posts, read 1,560,255 times
Reputation: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRR View Post
What else could be expected from a congress that is paralyzed by fear of special interest groups? Grover Norquist is making the Republicans swear that not a dollar of new taxes for anyone and the AARP holding their vast membership over the head of any Democrat who would even think of a dollar of change to Medicare/Social Security. Add in all the other organizations like the NAR who spend large amounts of money to make sure that their interests are met first. You would have to be a pretty strong congressperson to go against any of those and put the best interest of the country as a whole as your priority. And one thing we certainly do not seem to have in Washington at this time are strong people in Congress
The AARP however is correct. Retirees PAID for their benefits in SS taxes all their working lives. The same goes for people near and not so near the retirement age which, BTW, was already raised to 67 for anybody born after 1950. Therefore they should not be asked to give up a dime of benefits so that politicians can waste it on something else. Any Democrat that even thinks of touching SS or Medicare should face a primary challenge and be got rid of.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:42 PM
JRR
 
Location: Algood/Cookeville TN
3,152 posts, read 1,901,214 times
Reputation: 4364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
The AARP however is correct. Retirees PAID for their benefits in SS taxes all their working lives. The same goes for people near and not so near the retirement age which, BTW, was already raised to 67 for anybody born after 1950. Therefore they should not be asked to give up a dime of benefits so that politicians can waste it on something else. Any Democrat that even thinks of touching SS or Medicare should face a primary challenge and be got rid of.
So you don't think that any possible change in any way to Medicare could ever be considered? Isn't that the same type of "line in the sand" thinking that the Republicans use for "not a more dollar of taxes"? How can anything ever get done to reduce the deficit if Medicare is untouchable?

And Social Security could certainly use some restructuring to make it stronger for those in the future. No one is talking about changing Social Security for current retirees or those nearing retirement age. But it would seem logical that changes need to be made to guarantee benefits for future retirees.

To use the tired but true phrase "Everything should be on the table".
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:48 PM
 
16,704 posts, read 18,933,830 times
Reputation: 6804
I don't know why anyone is in shock of what happened... I mean as soon as the Democrats made their pick for the panel, it was ALREADY over and I was the first to predict that... The Democrats intentionally picked people who would demand tax increases and they have known for DECADES that it was NEVER going to happen with the Republicans... so they intentionally killed it because they refuse to admit to the truth of the situation... that's fine... I can live with the cuts... I think its going to be fantastic to see the changes that are going to be made to entitlement programs as well as the biggest overpaid pork of all, Defense spending...
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:02 PM
JRR
 
Location: Algood/Cookeville TN
3,152 posts, read 1,901,214 times
Reputation: 4364
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
I don't know why anyone is in shock of what happened... I mean as soon as the Democrats made their pick for the panel, it was ALREADY over and I was the first to predict that... The Democrats intentionally picked people who would demand tax increases and they have known for DECADES that it was NEVER going to happen with the Republicans... so they intentionally killed it because they refuse to admit to the truth of the situation... that's fine... I can live with the cuts... I think its going to be fantastic to see the changes that are going to be made to entitlement programs as well as the biggest overpaid pork of all, Defense spending...
Until Congress votes to overturn the trigger process. Just wait until the military puts pressure on the Republicans and the entitlement people put pressure on the Democrats. What Congress votes into existence they can vote out of existence.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,712 posts, read 11,024,505 times
Reputation: 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRR View Post
So you don't think that any possible change in any way to Medicare could ever be considered? Isn't that the same type of "line in the sand" thinking that the Republicans use for "not a more dollar of taxes"? How can anything ever get done to reduce the deficit if Medicare is untouchable?

And Social Security could certainly use some restructuring to make it stronger for those in the future. No one is talking about changing Social Security for current retirees or those nearing retirement age. But it would seem logical that changes need to be made to guarantee benefits for future retirees.

To use the tired but true phrase "Everything should be on the table".
Medicare's major problem is the same problem private health insurance has, medical costs rising faster than inflation for long periods. Change our health insurance system to mimic successful models in Europe and the problem won't be a problem any longer.

Social Security hasn't contributed one dime to the deficit and shouldn't be lumped into this.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Here
10,833 posts, read 11,575,357 times
Reputation: 5928
Did Kerry ever pay those boat taxes?
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