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Old 11-21-2011, 12:49 PM
 
39,075 posts, read 23,170,087 times
Reputation: 12157

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
I found
another video of the event on YouTube.

This one provides a little more insight into what happened.

You can clearly see that the "protesters" were actively blocking the police from getting past them on that sidewalk.
The officer sprayed those who were on or right near the edge of that sidewalk, so that they could move them out of the way and proceed with their business.
You can see the police, as soon as there was a walkway available to the, took those they had arrested and walked on.

This doesn't appear to be any sort of brutality. And it's not punishment. It's an attempt to do their job, moving aside those who tried to stop them in a relatively harmless, in temporarily uncomfortable, manner. The police were sent to arrest some people. Some other people attempted to prevent that. They took appropriate action. What would you have the police do? Sit down & wait it out, hoping those preventing them from doing their job would tire & leave? Grab them and drag them away without the pepper spray (which many experts say is more likely to cause injury.)
I respectfully disagree. You don't see this as brutality, but I do. It's a form of assault. If it wasn't assault, no one would have had to receive medical treatment. They didn't take proportionate action. They took brutal action. Why not go around the protesters? Over the protesters? Why not call in for other police officers to approach from a different direction to arrest the people they wanted arrested? This wasn't a canyon. It was a campus quad. As I remember it, there were a hundred ways into the campus quad when I was in school. The way the officer strode along the line, covering the students in pepper spray, not hurrying, not fearfully, but in complete control of the situation, is what makes it brutal. The officer was in control, and abused people to reinforce that control.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:52 PM
 
25,631 posts, read 29,140,279 times
Reputation: 23049
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimC2462 View Post
Really??? Start watching the footage at 0:29 where another officer sprayed protesters that were not even near the sidewalk. The officers approached them with pepper spray.
Really. Very effective non-violent way of handling the situation.

I will hand it to the protesters though. They got exactly what they wanted. Classic Alinsky playbook. They were very disciplined in not moving before the spray came out.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:27 PM
 
2,090 posts, read 3,808,232 times
Reputation: 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
Really. Very effective non-violent way of handling the situation.

I will hand it to the protesters though. They got exactly what they wanted. Classic Alinsky playbook. They were very disciplined in not moving before the spray came out.
I disagree with your statement. You obviously have let your ideology form a bias against the non-violent protest event.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:29 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 33,440,955 times
Reputation: 4016
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I respectfully disagree. You don't see this as brutality, but I do. It's a form of assault. If it wasn't assault, no one would have had to receive medical treatment. They didn't take proportionate action. They took brutal action. Why not go around the protesters? Over the protesters? Why not call in for other police officers to approach from a different direction to arrest the people they wanted arrested? This wasn't a canyon. It was a campus quad. As I remember it, there were a hundred ways into the campus quad when I was in school. The way the officer strode along the line, covering the students in pepper spray, not hurrying, not fearfully, but in complete control of the situation, is what makes it brutal. The officer was in control, and abused people to reinforce that control.

Police Training - Pepper Spray (OC) - YouTube


Police Training - Pepper Spray (OC) - YouTube
Quote:
Both officers were trained in the use of pepper spray as department policy dictates, and both had been sprayed with it themselves during training, the chief noted.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=142603009 (broken link)

Do you want them to do what they're trained for and with or do you want them to be impotent ushers...
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,159 posts, read 10,901,813 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I respectfully disagree. You don't see this as brutality, but I do. It's a form of assault. If it wasn't assault, no one would have had to receive medical treatment. They didn't take proportionate action. They took brutal action. Why not go around the protesters? Over the protesters? Why not call in for other police officers to approach from a different direction to arrest the people they wanted arrested? This wasn't a canyon. It was a campus quad. As I remember it, there were a hundred ways into the campus quad when I was in school. The way the officer strode along the line, covering the students in pepper spray, not hurrying, not fearfully, but in complete control of the situation, is what makes it brutal. The officer was in control, and abused people to reinforce that control.
There was nothing "brutal" about it. He used a small measure of discomfort to cause them to move, so the police could do their job. The police weren't trying to get INTO a place, they were trying to LEAVE. The police were inside the circle of people who were blocking the way out. They already had in custody the people they were trying to arrest, and the protesters wouldn't let them LEAVE. They didn't need MORE police, the numbers there were sufficient. They had the tools, including canisters of pepper spray, that would let them do their job. When they asked the protesters to clear the way so they could leave, the protesters refused. Appropriate action was taken so that the way was cleared, and no one was hurt.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,159 posts, read 10,901,813 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimC2462 View Post
I disagree with your statement. You obviously have let your ideology form a bias against the non-violent protest event.
Why do some people refuse to acknowledge this; they were not pepper sprayed because they were protesting. They were pepper sprayed because they were preventing the police from doing their job.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:45 PM
 
3,395 posts, read 3,209,721 times
Reputation: 9262
I consider myself a hard-core right-wing law-and-order conservative, but this offends even me.

I engaged in a little protesting of the pro-life variety back in the 90s. We did sit-ins at abortion clinics. The police had to lead us away into the bus to be arrested for trespassing one by one. I would have been shocked if they had used pepper spray on us, although it was a very similar situation.

Before you start taking away the rights of protesters, think about the fact that you may be in a position to protest the govt sometime in the future.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:03 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,356,382 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
Why do some people refuse to acknowledge this; they were not pepper sprayed because they were protesting. They were pepper sprayed because they were preventing the police from doing their job.
They were pepper sprayed because that's how the University of California has dealt with non-violent student protesters since the 1960's. There is a very long history in the system of administrators turning their heads toward police brutality. Clean house and get rid of every chancellor who condones this kind of idiocy.

It's disgusting.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:08 PM
 
39,075 posts, read 23,170,087 times
Reputation: 12157
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post

Police Training - Pepper Spray (OC) - YouTube


Police Training - Pepper Spray (OC) - YouTube
Univ. Police Chief On Leave After Pepper Spraying : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=142603009 - broken link)

Do you want them to do what they're trained for and with or do you want them to be impotent ushers...
I want them to do what they are entrusted to do. To protect. Assaulting college students who were sitting on the ground and who the officers could have easily climbed over (we know this to be true, since the officer who sprayed them climbed over the human chain at least twice in the video) is not what they are entrusted to do.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:10 PM
 
39,075 posts, read 23,170,087 times
Reputation: 12157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
There was nothing "brutal" about it. He used a small measure of discomfort to cause them to move, so the police could do their job. The police weren't trying to get INTO a place, they were trying to LEAVE. The police were inside the circle of people who were blocking the way out. They already had in custody the people they were trying to arrest, and the protesters wouldn't let them LEAVE. They didn't need MORE police, the numbers there were sufficient. They had the tools, including canisters of pepper spray, that would let them do their job. When they asked the protesters to clear the way so they could leave, the protesters refused. Appropriate action was taken so that the way was cleared, and no one was hurt.
YOUR video shows the police officer who sprayed the students climbing over the human chain at least twice. The students who were sprayed evidently weren't a serious obstacle. So why spray them?
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