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It's easy to say that when you are in the confines of your home. Have you ever had a gun pointed at you? Have you ever been chased by a mob? Until you are in that situation you have no idea what you would act like.
Not to change the subject, but what did you do to make a mob chase you?
Been in a similar situation, Held the swine at gunpoint until the police hauled them away.
Fact, over 2.5 million crimes a year are prevented by a legally armed citizen.
Fact, it is a documented fact I prevented 1 myself, by being legally armed, with an S&W 6906.
The guy told the police officer he didn't try to fight back or draw the gun he was found with, because he believed my statement that I would shoot him.
So no I am not an internet tough guy, I am someone who is was willing to do what was necessary, when it was necessary.
Darkatt, it sucks that you were in that situation. Gun toting or not, no one wants to actually BE in that situation with a .38 at their head. And I do agree that we should be able to arm ourselves to protect ourselves.
The difference in this situation, however, is that there are 50 of them. That's too many to take on, by yourself. It just is. You can knock out a few, like I said, but as I said earlier, when people start to scatter, do you really know where all of them went? The metaphor was "flee like cockroaches". They aren't all going to go out the door, some will duck, some will hide, some will prepare to shoot back at you and the problem with 50, and you by yourself, you don't know how many of those hiding behind a coke display or chips display are armed.
I understand "the principle of the matter" but it is NOT worth losing your life over a fricken Twizzler!
Darkatt, it sucks that you were in that situation. Gun toting or not, no one wants to actually BE in that situation with a .38 at their head. And I do agree that we should be able to arm ourselves to protect ourselves.
The difference in this situation, however, is that there are 50 of them. That's too many to take on, by yourself. It just is. You can knock out a few, like I said, but as I said earlier, when people start to scatter, do you really know where all of them went? The metaphor was "flee like cockroaches". They aren't all going to go out the door, some will duck, some will hide, some will prepare to shoot back at you and the problem with 50, and you by yourself, you don't know how many of those hiding behind a coke display or chips display are armed.
I understand "the principle of the matter" but it is NOT worth losing your life over a fricken Twizzler!
Nor is it worth taking another's life over a Twizzler.
The whole concept of allowing the use of Deadly Force to protect one's property has to consider the reasonableness of the action. Taking a Twizzler - not reasonable to use deadly force. Robbing a bank, threatening harm, invading a home - it definitely is reasonable. In between - trouble. Even if you are right to use deadly force, chances are pretty good you'll at a minimum be spending lots of money on a criminal defense lawyer.
I have nothing against RESPONSIBLE gun ownership or use. Although I used to shoot, it just wasn't for me - didn't enjoy it (and was awful at it, too), so I don't. Just like I never enjoyed golf. Not a hobby that interests me.
As a victim of gun violence, however, I am still spooked by a gun, so please keep them away from me.
For the many gun collectors/owners here, I'd like to direct you to a site I found fascinating. I was working at Colt Industries back in the 80's, and one of the most fascinating displays I have ever seen was their inhouse firearms museum. These were not just "guns" - they were works of art. On display were the many frearms presented to each President of the U.S., something that was a custom of Colt. I do not know if & when it has stopped, nor do I recall when it started. The history of the company is fascinating:
Nor is it worth taking another's life over a Twizzler.
The thing is, this isn't a single kid caught with a candy bar in his pocket. If that were the case, the owner wouldn't need an elevation of force. Simply physically detaining them and calling the police would be sufficient.
The entire point of this event is the use of mob force, a legitimate use of deadly force is justified. The whole point of the use of the force is to establish a proper response to a situation that is reasonably justified in its use of force. For instance, a woman who is small who is being attacked by an unarmed man who is much larger than her is justified in the use of deadly force due to the circumstance of the man far overpowering her.
This translates to number of people unarmed as well. If you are the victim of a crime and the numbers are great (meaning there is no reasonable means for you to stop the crime safely by basic use of force), then an elevation of force is justified, and in the case of the store owner, 50 people unarmed is justification for the use of lethal force in order to stop the commission of the crime.
Also, while one candy bar may not be something to get upset over in terms of monetary theft, 50 people ransacking a store taking what they want can add up to 100's if not 1000's of dollars of lost property.
This is not simple shop lifting as the story implies. Shop lifting is the taking of a product through passive means to evade detection. This is flat out robbery to which uses the mob as its weapon of force. The robbers have no worry about being seen or not as they are relying on the mass theft and intimidation of the numbers to be sufficient to threaten the victim from action.
This sort of behavior deserves lethal force as to not apply it simply encourages behavior of this nature and justifies the success of their venture (as we can see with its growing popularity).
Using lethal force on someone is no easy business, but some need to learn and if we refuse to teach people the consequences of such actions, we only tailor a society to be accepting of victimization.
And you would be spot on about that. I have read many reports of criminals that lose their courage the moment they find they no longer have an upper hand.
and while you go rambo shooting up everybody, what do you do about the innocent people who were in line paying for what they bought, getting caught in the crossfire and peppered with bullets from yourself and most likely these others firing back at you.
1. you die
2. you get lucky and survive, but end up in jail for 30 years once they see you shooting innocent people, even if it is by mistake.
its easy playing the tough guy, but being an online tough guy doesn't translate to being a tough guy in real life.
I am trained to handle such events and I have had a gun pointed at me. I have a Police Officers Standards of Training certification I received in my youth. .
and while you go rambo shooting up everybody, what do you do about the innocent people who were in line paying for what they bought, getting caught in the crossfire and peppered with bullets from yourself and most likely these others firing back at you.
1. you die
2. you get lucky and survive, but end up in jail for 30 years once they see you shooting innocent people, even if it is by mistake.
its easy playing the tough guy, but being an online tough guy doesn't translate to being a tough guy in real life.
It is easy to make what if scenarios and claim it will be a shoot out, but the fact is, the occurrences of such events are extremely rare. You are operating on the same anti-gun argument made.
I have studied law enforcement, read the reports, discussed at length with veteran officers, and criminal psychologists when I was in my youth. This claim that it will be the wild wild west is an ignorant slippery slope argument that serves no other purpose than to vindicate the criminals in their actions.
It is the only way you can win your argument. You have to change the scenario into a gangster movie shootout to which innocents are dying left and right because some idiot pulled out a gun and started shooting people. Stop watching movies, read up on use of force and proper procedure as well as proper use of a fire arm in a given situation.
Or... go back browse the Brady site where you get your information.
Trained, but started working for IT while I was looking and never went back.
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