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View Poll Results: Do you support the European bailout?
Yes 6 10.00%
No 54 90.00%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2011, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,762,061 times
Reputation: 5691

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I voted yes. If Europe goes, we go.

I do not think all of Europe is fiscally irresponsible. Germany and France seem to be on better footing than us. Greece should be booted out of the EU, they have acted like scum. Spain, Ireland, Portugal, etc. have been impacted disproportionately by the Anglo-Saxon housing bubble, and they will eventually recover.

I'll admit, I have not studied this enough, but that is my thinking at the moment.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:00 PM
 
3,457 posts, read 3,623,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I didn't post a chart of consumer debt.

What do you think the Total Credit Market is?
total credit market debt is public + private.

consumer debt, mortgages, student loans, auto loans, et cetera, makes up the majority of private debt. private debt makes up the majority of total debt.

you're babbling about the debt ceiling, while posting a graph that includes mortgage debt and credit card debt and such.

surely you understand the difference ? right?
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
total credit market debt is public + private.

consumer debt, mortgages, student loans, auto loans, et cetera, makes up the majority of private debt. private debt makes up the majority of total debt.

you're babbling about the debt ceiling, while posting a graph that includes mortgage debt and credit card debt and such.

surely you understand the difference ? right?
You're woefully misinformed. Consumer debt does not make up the majority of the Total Credit Market.



Furthermore...

Federal Reserve household credit report: Consumers shed debt - Nov. 28, 2011
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:23 PM
 
3,457 posts, read 3,623,334 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You're woefully misinformed. Consumer debt does not make up the majority of the Total Credit Market.



Furthermore...

Federal Reserve household credit report: Consumers shed debt - Nov. 28, 2011
right, see the green color? That's the debt that's related to the debt ceiling. That's the annual share of the "national debt," which Ned Davis has normalized against GDP.

See how much smaller it is than the private debt: household, corporate, and financial debt combined?
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
right, see the green color? That's the debt that's related to the debt ceiling. That's the annual share of the "national debt," which Ned Davis has normalized against GDP.
And it's growing, remember?

Obama Asks Public To Pressure Republicans On Debt Ceiling - Forbes

Quote:
See how much smaller it is than the private debt: household, corporate, and financial debt combined?
Household debt is shrinking, remember?

Federal Reserve household credit report: Consumers shed debt - Nov. 28, 2011

We have to get Obama to lay off of continuing to amass record national debt. And PLEASE have Obama stop begging the public to pressure Republicans into raising the debt ceiling.

Note to liberals: TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Athens,Greece.
306 posts, read 218,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
This is a no nonsense poll. Do you support the European bailout? Yes or No.

Every one who votes yes is a traitor...
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:52 PM
 
3,457 posts, read 3,623,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Correct.

Quote:
We have to get Obama to lay off of continuing to amass record national debt. And PLEASE have Obama stop begging the public to pressure Republicans into raising the debt ceiling.
Why, so we can fall into the deflationary vortex? great idea, but no thanks.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
Why, so we can fall into the deflationary vortex? great idea, but no thanks.
Living more within our means is deflationary? Hardly.

Cut excessive spending, and stop enabling the exponential growth of the welfare-dependent class. And get Obama to STOP begging the public to pressure Republicans into raising the national debt ceiling.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:12 PM
 
3,457 posts, read 3,623,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Living more within our means is deflationary? Hardly.

Actually, it is.

Upper-middle class yuppies going from using HELOCs to buy new Boston Whalers, to bankruptcy almost overnight is a deflationary shock.

So the fact that we allowed it, encouraged it, bailed it all out, is one problem.

The fact that this spending no longer exists is a completely separate problem to deal with.

Quote:
Cut excessive spending, and stop enabling the exponential growth of the welfare-dependent class. And get Obama to STOP begging the public to pressure Republicans into raising the national debt ceiling.
Well you can believe what you want to believe, but the "welfare class" and all its spending fits neatly inside of that little green area of your graph, represented by government debt.

The trouble takes place mostly in the Grey "financials" area. Notice how that was, once upon a time, a VERY small share of the debt markets, and the economy grew quite nicely for years. Then notice how, as the share of "financial debt" grew historically, we also started losing jobs. This is the so-called, Euthanasia of Industry, as the private banking system began to grow, and crowd out everyone else.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
Actually, it is.

Upper-middle class yuppies going from using HELOCs to buy new Boston Whalers, to bankruptcy almost overnight is a deflationary shock.

So the fact that we allowed it, encouraged it, bailed it all out, is one problem.

The fact that this spending no longer exists is a completely separate problem to deal with.
So, you think we should just continue to enable the debt junkies?

Sorry, but that's not sustainable.

Quote:
Well you can believe what you want to believe, but the "welfare class" and all its spending fits neatly inside of that little green area of your graph, represented by government debt.
Correct. If we stop increasing the amounts we have to pay to the exponentially growing welfare-dependent class, Obama won't have to keep begging the public to pressure Republicans into raising the national debt ceiling.

Didn't the ratings agencies threaten the U.S. with another downgrade if we don't get our federal spending under control? They're not just p*ssing into the wind. They've downgraded EU nations, too.
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