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Sorry, but I can't believe that analogy was made... "Homosexuality is like left handedness"... By that example you are admitting homosexuality is a choice.
Sorry, but I can't believe that analogy was made... "Homosexuality is like left handedness"... By that example you are admitting homosexuality is a choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz
Lefthandedness is not a birth trait.
You can, and most parents do, train their children to be right or left handed.
So, you basically answered my question for me with that parallel.
There is NO conclusive evidence that left/right hand orientation is "genetic"..
The MOST accepted theory is from the fetal stage... which can be DIRECTLY observed by which hand is moved with the most repetition.
Which is an argument FOR conditioning, not genetic expression.
They still have not linked homosexuality to genetic expression. Even the environmental stressors are more widely accepted.
You think left-handedness and homosexuality is a 'choice' or a learned behavior?
What research have you read? What 'environmental stressors' are you referring to? Pre-natal hormones?
Handedness in the human fetus http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/002839329190080R
Ultrasound observations of fetuses from 15 weeks to term revealed a marked bias for sucking the thumb of the right hand. This preference appears to be maintained throughout pregnancy, is unrelated to fetal position in utero but correlates with head position preference in the supine newborn. The findings indicate that handednes is present prior to birth and the implications of this for the development of laterality are discussed.
Molecular approaches to brain asymmetry and handedness
Summary
· The left and right hemispheres of the human brain have distinct functions: for example, the left is normally dominant for language and logical processing, whereas the right is specified for spatial recognition. The segregation of human brain functions between the left and right hemispheres is associated with asymmetries of anatomical structures, such as the Sylvian fissures and the planum temporale.
· More than 90% of the human population is more skilled with the right hand, which is controlled by the left hemisphere. Language ability is also dominant in the left hemisphere in more than 95% of the right-handed population, whereas it is observed in only 70% of the left-handed population.
Human handedness, a marker for language lateralization in the brain, continues to attract great research interest. A widely reported but not universal finding is a greater male tendency toward left-handedness. Here the authors present a meta-analysis of k = 144 studies, totaling N = 1,787,629 participants, the results of which demonstrate that the sex difference is both significant and robust. The overall best estimate for the male to female odds ratio was 1.23 (95% confidence interval = 1.19, 1.27). The widespread observation of this sex difference is consistent with it being related to innate characteristics of sexual differentiation
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The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb.
However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain.
There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation
"There's a converging line of evidence between the hormonal studies, the genetic studies , and the neuroanatomical studies. My research has identified candidate genes within these new chromosomal regions that could link together all of these different findings”
"I demonstrate that the number of biological older brothers, including those not reared with the participant (but not the number of nonbiological older brothers), increases the probability of homosexuality in men. These results provide evidence that a prenatal mechanism(s), and not social and/or rearing factors, affects men's sexual orientation development."
"Biological Versus Nonbiological Older Brothers and Men’s Sexual Orientation," published by PNAS (Proceedings of the NationalAcademy of Sciences of the United States of America): Bogaert, A (2006) http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10771.full.pdf
Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex - life - 16 June 2008 - New Scientist
Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.
The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.
The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.
"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," she says.
Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most relied on people's responses to sexuality driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.
Brain symmetry
To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain parameters likely to have been fixed at birth.
"That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic.
"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary college, University of London, UK.
"The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."
"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences(pdf) in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus between straight and gay men.
You can, and most parents do, train their children to be right or left handed.
So, you basically answered my question for me with that parallel.
Yes I remember Catholic nuns 'training' my older brother not to use his left hand as a little boy. By tying it behind his back, hitting him with a cane, ridiculing him, telling him it was a sign of the devil...until he developed a stammer and became withdrawn. He had a lot of self-esteem problems as a teenager and adult. But at 50 years old....He's still left-handed.
Yes I remember Catholic nuns 'training' my older brother not to use his left hand as a little boy. By tying it behind his back, hitting him with a cane, ridiculing him, telling him it was a sign of the devil...until he developed a stammer and became withdrawn. He had a lot of self-esteem problems as a teenager and adult. But at 50 years old....He's still left-handed.
You can, and most parents do, train their children to be right or left handed.
So, you basically answered my question for me with that parallel.
That is what my teachers thought. So, they suggested my parents that I be "trained" to use my right hand to write, and of course I did (and can to this day). Except that back then, I would write "b" for "d" and vice versa. And I went back to my left hand, which is my writing hand.
But then, you actually believe in it being a choice. And why are we discussing it here? I take it that you believe homosexuality can be cured. Well, I'm sure it would involve as much effort to convert a gay person to straight as it would to convert you to gay. Or do you believe that to be not quite true?
BUT, the more significant point being, why the hell does it matter to you that a person is gay or straight?
Did you pull those out of you save notebook document..?? Do you have those reviews fired up and ready whenever these types of arguments materialize.
Guess what??
Every study conducted by D.F. Swaab and other researches like McFadden have NEVER been duplicated.
If you knew about scientific research no study is generally accepted by peer review unless it has been replicated...
But try again!!
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