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You have not "cornered me with logic." All you have stated is that until you see evidence, then you refuse to believe that God exists. That's not cornering me, that's telling me that you're not willing to explore what it means to be a religious person because you can't see or touch something. That' all you've said. Nada. Nothing. Zilch. Nothing else.
Hopefully, you'll look back on this thread one day and realize what happened here. Instead of answering direct questions, like define god, explain how you know so much in detail, why believe in one religion and not another etc.., you pulled the faith card. The reason you did that is because you have no logical reason to support or ways to defend the things you claim to believe. You began by claiming that you don't support organzied religion but you attempted to make the exact same nonsensical arguments that organized religon does which as usual ended up with the faith card. I really think you're a deist. I was a deist for a short period as I shed my religious indoctrination. I struggled to rationalize beliefs that had been shoved down my throat from the time I remember but in the end, if I was going to be honest with myself, I had to accept the reality that religion and believing in magical dieties was not logical. The world is far more wonderous without the cloud of doctrines and rituals written and devised by men.
Why is skydaddy an insult? Many religious people refer to their god as father and point to the sky as where he currently resides. A few religions claim he levatated into the sky. When did using a word that captures a belief become insulting?
Because you mean it as an insult. Who the hell do you think you're fooling?
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I've always found it ironic that religious conservatives abhore political correctness in a political context but believe it should be an entitlement when refering to their specific religion.
Oh have you? Here's a clue: Don't purposefully insult people about their religion.
Hopefully, you'll look back on this thread one day and realize what happened here. Instead of answering direct questions, like define god, explain how you know so much in detail, why believe in one religion and not another etc.., you pulled the faith card. The reason you did that is because you have no logical reason to support or ways to defend the things you claim to believe. You began by claiming that you don't support organzied religion but you attempted to make the exact same nonsensical arguments that organized religon does which as usual ended up with the faith card. I really think you're a deist. I was a deist for a short period as I shed my religious indoctrination. I struggled to rationalize beliefs that had been shoved down my throat from the time I remember but in the end, if I was going to be honest with myself, I had to accept the reality that religion and believing in magical dieties was not logical. The world is far more wonderous without the cloud of doctrines and rituals written and devised by men.
Although completely irrelevant to the conversation, considering i'm not trying to convince you there is a God (which you obviously think i'm trying to do which makes you wrong), i'll respond nevertheless.
1) Define God: My god is defined in the Holy Bible, King James Version. Look it up if you're really interested in knowing who He is.
2) I "pulled the faith card" because that's what religion is all about, and apparently the part you have so much trouble with. You're not interested in learning what it means to have faith, so I have no interest in wasting my time trying to tell you about it. Your mind is made up. That much is clear.
3) I never said I "don't support" organized religion. I said that I don't "fully suscribe" to organized religion, which has a meaning different than what you would like for it to mean in order to make your point. What that means is that I don't necessarily need a pastor, a brick and mortar church, a hymnal, or a choir to follow Jesus. Yes, its really that simple.
4) You were given a brain to think, rationalize, and decide with. If you choose to believe that there's nothing "logical" about having faith in God, thats your prerogative. But you shouldn't be surprised when God does call you forth one day and ask you to answer for those things you considered "logical." And if that does happen, you can look back and ask yourself a few questions about why you blew this conversation off as not so "logical."
Although completely irrelevant to the conversation, considering i'm not trying to convince you there is a God (which you obviously think i'm trying to do which makes you wrong), i'll respond nevertheless.
1) Define God: My god is defined in the Holy Bible, King James Version. Look it up if you're really interested in knowing.
2) I "pulled the faith card" because that's what religion is all about, and apparently the part you have so much trouble with. You're not interested in learning what it means to have faith, so I have no interest in wasting my time trying to tell you about it. Your mind is made up. That much is clear.
3) I never said I "don't support" organized religion. I said that I don't "fully suscribe" to organized religion, which has a meaning different than what you would like for it to mean in order to make your point. What that means is that I don't necessarily need a pastor, a brick and mortar church, a hymnal, or a choir to follow Jesus. Yes, its really that simple.
4) You were given a brain to think, rationalize, and decide with. If you choose to believe that there's nothing "logical" to having faith in God, thats your prerogative. But you shouldn't be surprised when God does call you forth one day and ask you to answer for those things you considered "logical."
1) Great, now where is the verifiable evidence that he exists, and is a god with supernatural powers?
2) I defined faith for you. It's belief without evidence or evidence to the contrary. In other words, it's the willful acceptance of ignorance. That's all faith is, nothing more. You choose to ignore evidence and believe what you've been told to believe. Religion teaches you that faith is somehow noble when it's not. It's actually quite juvenile. It allows adults to have their own santa.
3) Ok, whatever. Sounds like you want religion your way which actually isn't how religion works but who cares.
4) You started off ok here but you blew the landing. Again, why should I pay any attention to your god threats or any religions god threats when you can't provide me with any evidence to support that your god exists and has supernatural powers? Without evidence I can say that you'll have to answer to the magical teapot for not believing in it. Both of those claims are equally ridiculous.
1) Great, now where is the verifiable evidence that he exists, and is a god with supernatural powers?
2) I defined faith for you. It's belief without evidence or evidence to the contrary. In other words, it's the willful acceptance of ignorance. That's all faith is, nothing more. You choose to ignore evidence and believe what you've been told to believe. Religion teaches you that faith is somehow noble when it's not. It's actually quite juvenile. It allows adults to have their own santa.
3) Ok, whatever. Sounds like you want religion your way which actually isn't how religion works but who cares.
4) You started off ok here but you blew the landing. Again, why should I pay any attention to your god threats or any religions god threats when you can't provide me with any evidence to support that your god exists and has supernatural powers? Without evidence I can say that you'll have to answer to the magical teapot for not believing in it. Both of those claims are equally ridiculous.
You keep going in circles. You have zero intent to understand what "faith" entails and then turn around and ask for concrete evidence. That's the whole point of faith. To believe that something exists because God says it exists. If you don't believe in God, then why are we having this discussion? Your mind is made up already because you refuse to explore the meaning of faith.
If any human, including you, had all the answers, then there would be no questions. Which is why I find it completely shallow to demand "evidence" while completely igoring the concept of faith. You seem to think that you've got it all figured out because you can't reach up and grab the "sky daddy" out of the sky. Which leads me back to my original point that it takes an extreme form of mental gymnastics to have such a rigid view when so many things are unanswerable through science or religion. Since you can't touch it, then it must not exist! I find that to be highly shallow.
I get it. You don't belive in God. You're one in a million. The Bible has an answer for those who don't believe. I choose to believe God when he says that there will be judgement. If you don't, no sweat. But if you're wrong, what will you do? Try to wiggle your way out of it? By the time the judgement comes around, it will be way too late. But that's the "logical" choice you made because you couldn't be bothered by the concept of faith.
Last edited by AeroGuyDC; 12-02-2011 at 01:53 PM..
You keep going in circles. You have zero intent to understand what "faith" entails and then turn around and ask for concrete evidence. That's the whole point of faith. If any human, including you, had all the answers, then there would be no questions. Which is why I find it completely shallow to demand "evidence" while completely igoring the concept of faith. You seem to think that you've got it all figured out because you can't reach up and grab the "sky daddy" out of the sky. Which leads me back to my original point that it takes an extreme form of mental gymnastics to have such a rigid view when so many things are unanswerable through science or religion.
Religious debates always go in circles. I ask for evidence and you try and explain why you shouldn't have to provide it after invoking the (get out of think card) faith card. They ALL go this way. Who said all humans have answers? You keep talking about faith but have offered nothing. Without evidence, all we have are questions. You are asserting that you magically have answers and that your god and conversely every god should be leant credibility because every question in history hasn't been answered. There are no mental gymnastics required in saying I don't know. YOU'RE claiming absolute knowledge of something you have no evidence for..That's ridiculous and you know it. How is admitting that "I DONT KNOW" rigid? Rigid is to claim with certainty that you god exists but be unable to provide a shred of evidence for it. That's crazy.
I notice you again added Pascal's wager..What if YOU choose the wrong god? What will you do if allah's at the pearly gates? I'll simply say, god you should've shown yourself, I don't believe in crap for no reason. There are a millions of ridiculous what-ifs. You've obviously been scared into belief if you keep trotting this out. I'm not scared. I'm not going to waste my life doubling down on ignorance and superstision. You can have at it.
Religious debates always go in circles. I ask for evidence and you try and explain why you shouldn't have to provide it after invoking the (get out of think card) faith card. They ALL go this way. Who said all humans have answers? You keep talking about faith but have offered nothing. Without evidence, all we have are questions. You are asserting that you magically have answers and that your god and conversely every god should be leant credibility because every question in history hasn't been answered. There are no mental gymnastics required in saying I don't know. YOU'RE claiming absolute knowledge of something you have no evidence for..That's ridiculous and you know it. How is admitting that "I DONT KNOW" rigid? Rigid is to claim with certainty that you god exists but be unable to provide a shred of evidence for it. That's crazy.
Claiming absolute knowledge? I have made no such claim. All I have claimed is that I believe in the Christian word of God. I do not attempt to know what God's plans for the world are other than what is said in the Bible. What i'm finding out in this discussion with you is that you're quick to put words in my mouth in order to make your point. That seems a pretty convenient thing to do considering that I have made no claim of knowing everything. In fact, it was I who has said several times that too many things are unanswerable via religion OR science. You should step down from this pedestal you think you're on and chat on the merits of the conversation, not what you THINK or WISH that i've said.
Claiming absolute knowledge? I have made no such claim. All I have claimed is that I believe in the Christian word of God. I do not attempt to know what God's plans for the world are other than what is said in the Bible. What i'm finding out in this discussion with you is that you're quick to put words in my mouth in order to make your point. That seems a pretty convenient thing to do considering that I have made no claim of knowing everything. In fact, it was I who has said several times that too many things are unanswerable via religion OR science. You should step down from this pedestal you think you're on and chat on the merits of the conversation, not what you THINK or WISH that i've said.
That is absolute knowledge. That's how rigid religion is. You're locked in, you believe that your god is all powerful, no? If you don't, you're not a christian. It's obvious that you're in denial as to what religion actually is which is why I've continually stated that you're a deist. You want a middle ground but there is none in theistic religions. Either you know your god is all powerful or you don't. It's nothing more absolute than that. With that said, you can't provide a shred of evidence for what you believe to be all powerful but find it plausible to ask me questions about what I'll say on judgement day when said god returns. Amazing.
Also, how can you say something is not answerable? How do you know that? Do you know what technology we'll come up with in the future? How do you come up with these answers? You are correct in saying things are unanswerable via religion. Religion doesn't change. Your book is your book, same as it was 2000 years ago. Religion doesn't seek to find answers, it seeks to find apologies for what they've alreay written. When they can't come up with an apology, they pull the faith card and round and round we go.
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