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Old 12-04-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
It's simpler than that; he broke no laws.
You don't seem to be very well informed.

Here's an excerpt from a paper I wrote and presented for a working group representing the illegally held detainees at Guantánamo while working on my doctorate in International Relations (I'll highlight the pertinent parts):

The United States has consistently maintained that habeas corpus does not apply to alien enemy combatants, and that the United States does not exercise sovereignty over U.S. Naval Station Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. However, U.S. federal courts have held in Haitian Ctrs. Council, 823 F. Supp. at 1042, et al, that the two-year confinement of an alien at Guantánamo established substantial connection to the United States to give rise to due process rights.

The United States has additionally argued that the exigencies of the global “war on terror” outweigh all other considerations and that the defense of the nation is of prime importance. It has also adopted the position that terrorists are not only stateless, but that they are persona non-gratis as well, and fall out-side the definitions of all international laws and treaties.

Overall, the approach taken by the United States continues to be nonsensical and unnecessary. As David Sloss pithily notes, it would be in the government’s best interest to classify Taliban detainees as POWs under the 3rd Geneva Convention and al-Qaeda detainees as “protected persons” under the 4th Geneva Convention. The United States could legally maintain the detainees in custody until the “cessation of active hostilities” for the former and the “close of hostilities” for the latter. In both instances, the United States would have tremendous leeway to make the determination as to when hostilities ended.

IV. ANALYSIS

4.1 HAS THE U.S. GRANTED ENEMY COMBATANTS IN THE WAR ON TERROR DETAINED IN CUBA FULL GUARANTEES OF HUMAN RIGHTS TREATIES AND THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS?

Torture and inhumane treatment of persons are peremptory norms and as such, cannot be derogated. The United States has failed to treat detainees in accordance with international treaties and customary law. The ban against torture is a customary law ingrained as jus cogens. Under jus cogens, criminal acts are subject to universal jurisdiction, regardless where the criminal act took place, or the nationalities of the perpetrator or victim.

4.2 THE UNITED STATES HAS FAILED TO COMPLY WITH CAT.

Articles 1 & 16 specifically prohibit torture and inhumane treatment. Furthermore, it plainly states that, “This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.” Moreover, “No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

Branch Memoranda on Status and Permissible Treatment of Detainees. The American Journal of International Law, Vol. 98, No. 4. (Oct., 2004), pp. 820-831.

Sloss, David L., Rasul v. Bush. 124 S.Ct. 2686, The American Journal of International Law, Vol. 98, No. 4. (Oct., 2004), pp. 788-798.

CAT art. 5, para.3

Ibid art 2, para. 2

4.3 THE UNITED STATES HAS FAILED TO COMPLY WITH THE 3RD AND 4TH GENEVA CONVENTIONS.

In the A-s-h-c-r-o-f-t Letter, the United States Attorney General outlined an argument proposing that the detainees be denied the protections of the treaty because Afghanistan was a “failed state.” This argument falls short because neither Afghanistan nor the Taliban were ever on the United States State Department list of Terrorist States, Terrorist-Sponsoring States, Terrorist Organizations or Terrorist Sponsoring Organizations. Furthermore, the United States repeatedly engaged in negotiations through July 1, 2001, with the Taliban on behalf of the UNOCAL Corporation to build the CentGas oil pipeline through Afghanistan. Thus, the United States clearly recognized the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan, rather than a “failed state.”

A-s-h-c-r-o-f-t ’s second line of reasoning is that Taliban detainees should be denied protections as “unlawful combatants.” This argument fails, because Article 5 of the 3rd Geneva Convention requires that all persons be afforded protections until such time as an evaluation by a competent authority to evaluate each individual detainee’s status. The United States failed to convene a prompt hearing to determine the status of each detainee for more than two years. Of particular importance is the distinction noted between “armed conflict” and “armed violence.” Where terrorism is concerned, humanitarian law does not apply to “armed violence.” However, “armed conflict” automatically invokes the protections of the Geneva Conventions.

Another issue involves the definitions of the two types of armed conflicts, international and internal. The conflict in Afghanistan ceased to be an international conflict on December 21, 2001, the day that Hamid Karzai became the leader of the interim government. Since al-Qaeda is not a State, its members are automatically governed by Common Article 3.

* Sorry about that but the stupidity of City Data requires that I use hyphens for the attorney general's name.

4.4 THE UNITED STATES HAS FAILED TO COMPLY WITH THE ICCPR.

Although ICCPR provides limited derogations from certain rights under the convention, the Special Rapporteur noted that the “United States has not notified any official derogation from ICCPR, as requested under article 4 (3) of the Covenant, or from any other international human rights treaty.” The ICCPR makes no distinction between “armed violence” and “armed conflict.” It is in full force and effect at all times and specifically prohibits the derogation of certain articles regardless of circumstance, including the directive that, “No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

See Official Statement of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) dated 21 July 2005 regarding “The relevance of IHL in the context of terrorism” (available at http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/terrorism-ihl-210705?OpenDocument>). Quoted in U.N. ESCOR, 62nd Session, Prov. Agenda Items 10 & 11, U. N. Doc. E/CN.4/2006/120 (2006) at p.29.

Sloss, David L., Rasul v. Bush. 124 S.Ct. 2686, The American Journal of International Law, Vol. 98, No. 4. (Oct., 2004), pp. 788-798.

U.N. ESCOR, 62nd Session, Prov. Agenda Items 10 & 11, U. N. Doc. E/CN.4/2006/120 (2006) at p.6.

ICCPR art. 4, para. 2
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
9,138 posts, read 5,799,525 times
Reputation: 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You don't seem to be very well informed.

If you say so...I say you're wrong.
No laws were broken.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,027 posts, read 7,285,888 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
If you say so...I say you're wrong.
No laws were broken.
You are the wrong one.

You were just given many examples. If you refuse to accept the facts right before your eyes, that's ignoring reality and the truth.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
9,138 posts, read 5,799,525 times
Reputation: 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You don't seem to be very well informed.

Here's an excerpt from a paper I wrote and presented for a working group representing the illegally held detainees at Guantánamo while working on my doctorate in International Relations (I'll highlight the pertinent parts):

Ohhhh...my apologies.
If I don't accept a paper you wrote as the "truth,"
that makes me "wrong." Cool, I bow to your authority.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Indiana
2,046 posts, read 1,573,791 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
W should be accountable. Also Cheney.
we voted for Bush we put him in charge maybe AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL should war with the U.S.A. as a nation. after all we all are responsible for putting him in charge. who ever this people are they'er idiots!!
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,027 posts, read 7,285,888 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
Ohhhh...my apologies.
If I don't accept a paper you wrote as the "truth,"
that makes me "wrong." Cool, I bow to your authority.
You also don't believe in plenty of things, that doesn't make you correct.

In fact, you are wrong usually.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:33 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,477,951 times
Reputation: 16962
Where does Amnesty International stand on each and every Honour Killing? Where is their outrage and call for arrest on Assad for ordering the murder of his own unarmed civilians, forcefully enacted female circumscisions, child labour, Somalian pirates killing prisoners they've hy-jacked?

Gad; the list is endless of stuff they're ignoring or are not as strident over, so why give them any credence over this?

Now were the Hague to issue an arrest warrant through Interpol perhaps you need be worried a little. Till then he should go on with his life and make as much as he can on speaking engagements right alongside Slick Willy the cigar dipper.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,597,802 times
Reputation: 14806
I think he should surrender. Running and hiding only makes him look more guilty.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
9,138 posts, read 5,799,525 times
Reputation: 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think he should surrender. Running and hiding only makes him look more guilty.
Surrender to who?
For what?
"Running and hiding?"
That's just silly.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:02 PM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,767,786 times
Reputation: 7020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
Ohhhh...my apologies.
If I don't accept a paper you wrote as the "truth,"
that makes me "wrong." Cool, I bow to your authority.
Have you not heard of the Geneva Conventions or the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights? The Geneva Conventions are treaties we signed agreeing never to use torture or commit war crimes. Treaties are legally binding on us according to the US Constitution.

Bush publicly admitted to authorizing the use of torture methods banned by the Geneva Convention.

Therefore, he broke the law.
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