Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
brian, the utopia you seek, while noble, is unattainable. I understand your feelings about children aquiring guns from their parents. I believe in responsible, and safe gun ownership, and in fact I not only practice it, but I preach it. I truly do wish we lived in the world that you aspire to, but the fact is, we don't, and never will.. To assertain that all guns are evil and should be banned is naive and unrealistic. You talked about training criminals. You can't force someone to learn. I believe in gun education and responsible handling of a firearm, however I also know that there are no absolutes in life. Good luck with your tilting at windmills.
Hi fs,
I don't agree that it's a utopia to strive towards a better world. I don't think I'm the only American who is against gun use, and I know for sure that our gov't isn't doing much at all to try to reform criminals. Both prisons and capital punishment are expensive and poor solutions to dealing with this aspect of the human existence.
I think guns are evil because they are made to take lives. I would go on to say that the military is also evil, even though I don't want derail the thread. My point is that both have only one use. If a gun could be used to build homes or care for the sick, then they might be useful. But if we really believe that violence is wrong, then why are we so willing to use it? Shouldn't we start thinking of new ways to deal with criminals, perhaps before they begin committing crimes? After all, most criminals are adults, which means that as children they probably would have been changed for the better if the right help had been given..
And that's what we do. Using a gun for self defense is always a last resort - everybody that carries knows that. It's a shame that so many people are so uninformed and afraid of guns that they assume that anybody that would carry is "living in fear" and that many actually want to shoot someone.
Wanting to shoot someone, and being willing to shoot someone, are on the same road. In fact, some people who are willing may someday start wanting. And that's because we're humans with emotions, and sometimes we're best left where guns aren't available. An argument, a moment of anger...
I remember a bumpersticker years back: "Some people are alive only because its illegal to kill them." Signed: NRA.
Preparing to change a flat tire is not the same as preparing to shoot someone. At least not in my book.
Peace,
brian
Thank you Captain Obvious, nor is it the same as learning how to use your particular fire extinguisher, nor is it the same as learning CPR in case of emergency.
So now we've established that none of these things are the same, what's your point?
Are you saying that there is any difference in the hope that none of these things will ever be needed to save the life of a loved one?
So you have an ethical issue with owning guns, good for you, don't own them. I have an ethical issue about people wanting to eliminate ownership of inanimate objects, and control other people so they feel better, shall we ban those people too?
Firstly the guy is an idiot - He has a tattoo on his neck..never met a person yet with a neck tatt that had a brain - lastly...I watched the video without sound-- and observed that the kid swaggers and is arrogant and assumes that deadly force is power..that you don't need a brain - you just have to have the tool to blow out someone elses brain in order to be the smartest most respected guy in the hood ---no - he does not know what a gun is...It's an object - it is NOT you! No gun for him.
It must be nice to live in "Never Never Land", but most of us stopped believing in its existence after we grew up and realized some folks out there don't play by the rules. Of course, as a Christian, I believe with you in the existence of God...but I also know He helps those who help themselves and His Word provides many justifications for a person using force to defend themselves. And it is also true Jesus Christ said "turn the other cheek." But the context was along the lines of "a soft answer turns away wrath.". He never said stand there and get beat to death!
In any event, just a few random comments on some of your points:
This is a loaded and false contrasting comparrison. For the law-abiding armed citizen, keeping a firearm in the house for self-defense purposes is only being prepared -- as is the possession of a spare tire, fire-extinguisher, fire-insurance, etc. -- only being prepared for worst-case scenario in the event some kind of factor out of your control occurs (such as a flat-tire, fire, or somebody deciding it would be really cool to rape and kill your wife or daughter!).
First of all, let's kill that goose (no pun intended!) about accidental shootings. More kids die each year by drowning in swimming pools than by accidental shootings. On a related tangent? Earlier I mentioned some of the "Brady Bunch" (i.e. Handgun Control Center) propaganda about non-applicable country by country crime rates. Well, this is another theme that the anti-gun people play off of by half-truths and emotions and mis-leading content.
For instance, back in the 90's there was a TV ad which showed a small child getting a gun out of a closet. Then, the screen went blank and there was a loud "BOOM". Then, there was a somber, dramatic, over-voice which said something like (not sure of the exact figures): "20 Children are killed each day by handguns."
The implication was that the innocent child had shot themself with their parents handgun and a similar thing was a common occurance. Problem was, again, it was all based on total BS. For one thing, the producers counted anyone under the age of 25 as "children." For another, it didn't mention that almost all of these so-called shootings were suicides, drug or gang-related, and in which cases of the latter, the guns were illegally obtained anyway and gun-control laws would not have prevented them!
So far as school and shopping mall shootings go? As RR pointed out, in every instance (for sure in schools) they occured in "Gun Free" areas. Funny thing, mass-killers don't obey those signs which say they can't have guns on the property. It is also important to mention that at least one school shooting (in Pearl, Mississippi) was stopped because the principal ran to his car and got his own gun and disarmed the shooter. Similar thing happened at Virginia Tech (I think it was but maybe somewhere else). That is, armed civilians brought it to a close.
So are cars, matches, gas stoves, scissors, stairs, or anything else if one doesn't know how to use them properly. *curious* Have you ever fired a gun in your life?
See earlier comment.
How do you know this? This is naivety of the worst sort. For one thing (to use that expression again), to enforce a ban on guns among the civilian population, it would take an armed government force to do it. One of the foundations of freedom in this country is that the right of the people to be armed is a check upon the type tyranny that is inevitable if only the forces of government (military, police, etc) have the exclusive right to possess weapons.
Also, maybe you are one of the saints among us who would roll over and play dead in the face of a deadly threat by a criminal, but I am not willing to die, nor be unable to protect my loved ones, because of some very vauge, abstract, notion, of "less guns, less crime." It has not only been proven untrue, but it is also one of those utilitarian la-la land themes that do not take into the account the highly personal right of self-defense.
To put it bluntly? Even if it were true (but it isn't) that gun control worked and that less people would be murdered by criminals if the access could be more controlled? That doesn't mean jack-shlit if I am helpless in the face of a deadly threat to myself and/or family by some scumbag or group of them who get a thrill out of raping/killing.
You are cheating humanity out of something if you don't share with us what that measure would be that has not been tried before. Especially in the 60's and 70's.
See above. What are they?
Praying with you for peace! BUT? Be prepared for war!
Hi TexasReb,
I see that you're from Texas. I'm from Minnesota. Just knowing this, I can imagine that we have different views on life, criminals, guns, death.. just because of where we've lived. Minnesota doesn't have the death penalty. Texas leads the country in State-endorsed killing. (I can't think of another way to define it..) Our teachers (whether scholastic, governmental, familial, religious, etc..) influence us greatly.
As such, we've probably been taught different things about guns, too. I found this link about gun-related deaths by country:
Notice on the link, that the data related to the USA goes back to 1993!! I wonder why they don't list more current data here; after all, it's more than 15 years old!
Anyway, it's not "never never land." It's simply believing that there is a better way for man to live with his neighbor. Does that mean there are no criminals? No. Does it mean we have to be willing to kill them? No.
A solution? I think the solution involves the entire society. We live in a very selfish culture that does not condemn killing someone who's caught stealing a car. How terrible! It's better to work with people who commit crimes to understand why they do it, and to promote alternatives and support to change. Prison doesn't work. Capital punishment is only killing made legal.
The question is: where are the ones in charge of the correctional system? And what types of values are they in support of? Are they thinking of new and better ways to deal with offenders, or are they just interested in staying employed?
This has to be one of the STUPDIST remarks I have ever read on CD....
So me owning a gun will make me WANT to shoot someone.....how ignorant is that..
So, if this is another FACT of your's....were is something to back it up.....and don't worry, won't be holding my breath for thiese fact's either...
You must be ignoring all the links that people provide you...
You might think it's ridiculous, but I've found youtube profile pages of people who not only declare they have a gun but seem very willing and/or itching to use it. Against who or what, I don't know for sure. But that type of mentality worries me.
I didn't say that owning a gun makes a person willing. All I'm saying is that some people would still be here today if they hadn't had access to one.
And I know that criminals would still find them, even if they were banned. And of course, they could use other weapons if guns weren't available.
But it's the mentality of being ready and willing to shoot your neighbor that's so barbaric..
I think guns are evil because they are made to take lives. I would go on to say that the military is also evil, even though I don't want derail the thread. My point is that both have only one use. If a gun could be used to build homes or care for the sick, then they might be useful. But if we really believe that violence is wrong, then why are we so willing to use it? Shouldn't we start thinking of new ways to deal with criminals, perhaps before they begin committing crimes? After all, most criminals are adults, which means that as children they probably would have been changed for the better if the right help had been given..
Just a thought.
Peace,
brian
Ah such a large amount of ignorance in your post, its almost frightening people like you exist.
Guns are not made to take lives, they are made with one simple purpose: To fire a projectile. Where said projectile goes is determined by its human operator.
Do people get drunk on unicorn **** while dodging the raining puppies and ice cream cones in your little dream world?
Serious question since you seem so pacifistic......
You encounter a loved one of yours being raped/beaten/murdered, do you just stand by or do you intervene with violence to protect the ones you care about?
Thank you Captain Obvious, nor is it the same as learning how to use your particular fire extinguisher, nor is it the same as learning CPR in case of emergency.
So now we've established that none of these things are the same, what's your point?
Are you saying that there is any difference in the hope that none of these things will ever be needed to save the life of a loved one?
So you have an ethical issue with owning guns, good for you, don't own them. I have an ethical issue about people wanting to eliminate ownership of inanimate objects, and control other people so they feel better, shall we ban those people too?
Living in Alaska, a gun might be handy against a bear, I suppose. But against people, there are other techniques. Alarms, a dog, karate-type techniques that even an elderly woman can use to dissuade a would-be attacker... There are many options available, if we want them.
Calling a loaded pistol an "inanimate object" is quite the understatement, though...
Ah such a large amount of ignorance in your post, its almost frightening people like you exist.
Guns are not made to take lives, they are made with one simple purpose: To fire a projectile. Where said projectile goes is determined by its human operator.
Do people get drunk on unicorn **** while dodging the raining puppies and ice cream cones in your little dream world?
Serious question since you seem so pacifistic......
You encounter a loved one of yours being raped/beaten/murdered, do you just stand by or do you intervene with violence to protect the ones you care about?
Honesty counts
If you're asking if it happened already to me or my wife, I can say no. If you're asking what I would do, I would say, with God's help, try to dissuade, distract, calm down, discourage... all of these can and do work. Even making lots of noise is sometimes sufficient. But killing, with God's help, no. Jesus didn't kill, and set us an example. He tells us to trust God, and I think He was right.
Peace,
brian
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Of course, as a Christian, I believe with you in the existence of God...but I also know He helps those who help themselves and His Word provides many justifications for a person using force to defend themselves. And it is also true Jesus Christ said "turn the other cheek." But the context was along the lines of "a soft answer turns away wrath.". He never said stand there and get beat to death! 
It is also important to mention that at least one school shooting (in Pearl, Mississippi) was stopped because the principal ran to his car and got his own gun and disarmed the shooter. Similar thing happened at Virginia Tech (I think it was but maybe somewhere else). That is, armed civilians brought it to a close. 
