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Secondly, "a few" can mean anything. I certainly did NOT say at 25. That's the age they like them. Old enough to have some experience, young enough to be stupid enough to work 80 hr. weeks, give up their entire lives to the company, then get laid off.
Do they take all the money back when they lay you off
I know what you're trying to say, I'm going to get laid off, but what I'm saying is that the IT field is the best field for jobs right now, so if I get laid off, I'll find another job. I will be better off at 25 than I am at 23. I'll have a bare minimum of 4 more certifications plus obviously a couple years experience in a production hosting environment.
I'm just not buying this theory of an evil corporate plot to hire me and lay me off. So they can do what? Hire another 23 year old? At the same rate? With less experience? Why? Just to be mean? Interestingly enough, I've become more valuable as I've gained more experience, not less
Besides, at least half that salary goes straight into savings.
Actually, I'm in my mid 30's, have almost 15 years experience and, according to salary.com, my salary is well above the 100th percentile for the area. Try again?
It's impossible to be "above the 100th percentile."
Do they take all the money back when they lay you off
I know what you're trying to say, I'm going to get laid off, but what I'm saying is that the IT field is the best field for jobs right now, so if I get laid off, I'll find another job. I will be better off at 25 than I am at 23. I'll have a bare minimum of 4 more certifications plus obviously a couple years experience in a production hosting environment.
I'm just not buying this theory of an evil corporate plot to hire me and lay me off. So they can do what? Hire another 23 year old? At the same rate? With less experience? Why? Just to be mean? Interestingly enough, I've become more valuable as I've gained more experience, not less
Besides, at least half that salary goes straight into savings.
I think the other thing she completely fails to understand is that no matter how much corporations try to cut costs, the one area where they never try to cheap out is in the operations side of the IT house. Experience there, matters. And the potential for catastrophe when you don't have it is enormous.
In my section of the IT world, I'm about average age, maybe even a little younger. With all the outsourcing and offshoring, companies have never even *attempted* to offshore the network and systems teams because management knows they can't afford to have even one outage or data breach caused by incompetence. Whilst companies such as Microsoft brought in an entire army of H1(b) programmers, their operations teams are still very much homegrown. As companies have been trying to depress salaries and get people taking paycuts, they've continued to treat operations specialists like gold.
Why? Because we can literally flip the switch and turn the whole company off. We're the ones who keep the hackers out and are the first, last, and only line of defense between the status quo and an embarassing national headline (and millions of dollars in fines/expenses) about a data breach. All her doom and gloom predictions about how I'll be replaced by some 21 year old by the time I'm 30 (never mind that I'm well beyond 30 at this point) are completely devoid of any logic, reason, or fact.
The reality that she fails to grasp, is (and this is not arrogant or hyperbole, just a fact), there are some sections of the IT world where you are always treated like the goose that lays the golden eggs. It's just how it is.
But she'll undoubtedly go on with her bitter little rant about how something bad is going to happen to everybody because it happened to her and her husband. Talking about how black the souls of others are whilst she's simultaneously openly hoping for tragedy to befall someone else.
It's impossible to be "above the 100th percentile."
Yes, yes it is. The point I was making is, my salary is above the highest reported salary in the area according to that site. As are a number of my colleagues in various companies.
And who's fault is it that they are A) unskilled and B) don't have a car?
I mean, I know that you think it's your uncle's fault, your parents' fault, your college's fault, the government's fault, your neighbour's fault, the hiring manager for a help desk job's fault, and everybody else's fault but your own as to why YOU are unskilled....but is it the fault of all those entities for everybody else, too?
Wait, this is you I'm talking to - of course it is.
I graduated in the top 5% of my class. In Japan, an employer would have gladly hired me and provided all the training and given me all the skills they needed. Now whose fault is it that I am unskilled?
I graduated in the top 5% of my class. In Japan, an employer would have gladly hired me and provided all the training and given me all the skills they needed. Now whose fault is it that I am unskilled?
So now the fault lies with the fact that some unnamed entity didn't send you to Japan after you graduated? That's funny man, when I got out of uni, I had skills and was employable. Same with millions of other people. Wonder why you're so different?
Man, the excuses, they just flow like Seattle rain with you. It never stops.
So now the fault lies with the fact that some unnamed entity didn't send you to Japan after you graduated? That's funny man, when I got out of uni, I had skills and was employable. Same with millions of other people. Wonder why you're so different?
Man, the excuses, they just flow like Seattle rain with you. It never stops.
Sounds to me like American employers want everything handed to them on a platter. Like they're too good to provide training when they can just hire cheap foreign labor with H1-B visas or even offshore (almost) completely.
I had skills when I graduated but was not able to afford continued training to complete my desired skill set. As a result, government does not allow me to practice my desired profession and won't even let me take the exam required before one may practice. I beluieve I could pass the bar exam today. Whose fault is it I'm not allowed to even take the bar exam? Whatever happened to meritocracy?
The reality that she fails to grasp, is (and this is not arrogant or hyperbole, just a fact), there are some sections of the IT world where you are always treated like the goose that lays the golden eggs. It's just how it is.
It comes down to value, no different than any other business. It's not just NOC guys. If you're valuable, you're not going to get laid off for no reason. There's a reason high level Java devs for example make $175+ per year. You can't just up and replace people like that. If they were easily replaceable, they wouldn't be making $175+ per year.
Junior programmers get tossed out sometimes, yeah, but that market is wide open. Last guy I knew didn't get laid off, he got fired for slacking off - found a new job making $5k more within 2 weeks, and this is not a particularly skilled guy at all. It's easier to find employment doing basic PHP than advanced UNIX right now. But it gets even safer and better paid with networking and system admin. I've decided to start the shift over to *NIX mostly; more my style, less likely to get outsourced, and I more fulfilling than sitting at a desk writing in procedural scripting languages.
Just got my Network+, Linux+, Server+ and Security+, working on my LPIC-1/2/3, OCPJA/P, and when I pay off my debt and scrape together $3k my RHCE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt
I graduated in the top 5% of my class. In Japan, an employer would have gladly hired me and provided all the training and given me all the skills they needed. Now whose fault is it that I am unskilled?
Yours. I learned everything I needed to get into the workforce in my room with a Pentium 3 I got for free on craigslist. And this was long after Pentium 3s were cool.
My formal schooling ended in the first half of 10th grade. You have a degree. There is no legitimate reason for you not to be kicking my ass right now. You don't have kids do you?
So according to the OP, those who spend 50 hours each week searching for a job are deadbeats? We can't sentence goofball posters to unemployment but thankfully we can do that to politicians running for office.
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