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View Poll Results: SHOULD THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY BE NOT FOR PROFIT?
Yes. 36 50.70%
No. 32 45.07%
I could care less. 3 4.23%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2011, 02:33 PM
 
16 posts, read 14,140 times
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So much of the news and politics in the last year has been focused on the "rising costs of health care".......but, it doesn't seem like any of the debate focuses on WHY healthcare has become so expensive.....

first, think about the doctor before he actually becomes a doctor..his motives for wanting to become a doctor are important because if all a person really is after is a big paycheck the quality of the care after the person becomes a doctor may not be what the world needs at all....then think about how much money the person invests in becoming a doctor (higher education costs, basic cost of living, and then the emergency happenings you did not plan on happening - ie car wrecks).

Now that being said, think about what you personally are passionate about, does it co-inside with your job?

shouldn't it?

And when you think about your health do you want your doctor to be a person who is motivated mostly by money? Its kinda like when you take your car to a repair shop and they tell you the car needs this and this and this plus it wouldn't be safe to let you leave the repair shop with your such and such in the extremely poor condition it is in, so the bill is astronomical, and you barely understand what the mechanic said....he knows things you don't, and the mechanic will always get your money because of this ....

is it MORAL to be a doctor and take advantage (making people have to pay to be healthy) of the ignorance of others?

Maybe a social change should devalue money and start putting more value on being passionate at what you do for a living, and taking care of your brother as you do for yourself.........because in the end, what really matters is not MONEY....
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,482 posts, read 5,968,304 times
Reputation: 6939
Yes. Let's pay doctors, nurses, technologists, and administrative personnel in smiles and rainbows. That'll work.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:30 PM
 
3,811 posts, read 3,075,299 times
Reputation: 2696
Healthcare costs in the US are 2-3 times higher than any other developed country and yet we have the worst healthcare outcomes. For-profit healthcare has been a disastrous failure. There's a reason why it doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. It's an idiotic system.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:44 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,536,957 times
Reputation: 1128
Well, there seems to be some confusion here between the health care industry being for-profit and health care workers being for profit.

Doctors and specialists are well-paid in pretty much every first world country. Perhaps not as well paid as in the USA, but they don't have malprctice insurance and often not much in the way of debt from their educations.

Health care in Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands is for-profit insurance, as far as I can remember. I could be wrong. But all those nations have rules in place to prevent the people who really need healthcare becoming undesirable customers, and to prevent the proliferation of paperwork and systems we see in America.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:45 PM
Status: "MAGA" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: New Jersey
10,445 posts, read 5,979,636 times
Reputation: 10269
Labor costs have little to do with the cost of health care. I posted an excellent article on the recent health insurance bill and why health care is expensive in this country. Many doctors and nurses are actually underpaid and under-appreciated for the work they do. Plus, making something a "not for profit" entity doesn't mean that the entity doesn't make money, it just has to do with distribution of net profits in bonus, which usually don't go workers anyway. Many hospitals are already not-for-profit. The health care situation won't improve in this country until people start looking at the real reasons why health care is so expensive and stop blaming the people who provide health care.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:37 PM
 
3,064 posts, read 2,161,086 times
Reputation: 967
" health care professionals should CARE about HEALTH more than they care about MONEY"

Sure. And Teachers should care more about imparting knowledge to their students than securing more benefits. And Vetranarians should care more about your pet's health and well-being than getting paid. And wait staff should care more about providing good service regardless of whether or not you ever leave a tip. And plumbers should care more about getting your toilet unplugged than about their paycheck. And the pizza delivery kid should care more about getting you your pizza there hot and on time than about how much he makes per hour. And dentists should care more about giving you the perfect smile than how much money they make. And social workers should care more about getting others put on welfare than they should about their own paycheck. Baseball players should care more about winning the game for their home town fans than about how much more money they can make if traded...

Most people care about and want to do a good job, whatever the job. Most people want to make as much money as they can doing it.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:11 PM
 
17,016 posts, read 11,383,613 times
Reputation: 8989
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatima.spokane View Post
So much of the news and politics in the last year has been focused on the "rising costs of health care".......but, it doesn't seem like any of the debate focuses on WHY healthcare has become so expensive.....

first, think about the doctor before he actually becomes a doctor..his motives for wanting to become a doctor are important because if all a person really is after is a big paycheck the quality of the care after the person becomes a doctor may not be what the world needs at all....then think about how much money the person invests in becoming a doctor (higher education costs, basic cost of living, and then the emergency happenings you did not plan on happening - ie car wrecks).

Now that being said, think about what you personally are passionate about, does it co-inside with your job?

shouldn't it?

And when you think about your health do you want your doctor to be a person who is motivated mostly by money? Its kinda like when you take your car to a repair shop and they tell you the car needs this and this and this plus it wouldn't be safe to let you leave the repair shop with your such and such in the extremely poor condition it is in, so the bill is astronomical, and you barely understand what the mechanic said....he knows things you don't, and the mechanic will always get your money because of this ....

is it MORAL to be a doctor and take advantage (making people have to pay to be healthy) of the ignorance of others?

Maybe a social change should devalue money and start putting more value on being passionate at what you do for a living, and taking care of your brother as you do for yourself.........because in the end, what really matters is not MONEY....


As a physician, I really do not know any other physicians who went into medicine for the money. The money is nice, but unless you are sincerely interested in science, you would hate your practice and would not last very long. Besides, there are much better ways to make money than medicine. Very few physicians, myself included, made thier money via medicine. It is usually through other investments.

I could quit medicine today, due to my financial position. However, I keep practicing and plan to do so, as I actually like what I do. I do not know of anyone who would put up with the hours and all the downside of medicine, unless they enjoyed what they were doing.

Am I a hand holder? Hell no. Never have- never will be. But I certainly like to see my patients do well and try to provide the best ADVICE, which is really what we are "selling" in medicine. We like to start with the cheaper, easy options and only progress if conservative measures are not effective. If one was pulling out the most expensive procedure or treatment, one would not last very long in practice, as word gets around among patients and referring physicians. Will I work for free? Hell no- would you?


FYI- just an observation. I have a half day clinic at the VA every week. I see twenty patients from 7:45-12:00. The average physician at the VA sees about 10 patients per day- THE WHOLE DAY. That is socialism vs capitalism. I really do not blame them, as I certainly would not bust my butt if the system was set up to reward inefficiency and working slowly. Most physicians in my age group were trained to work quickly. That is not the case any longer and the younger docs cannot see enough patients in clinics or thier operative times are much longer. Be prepared for more inefficient medicine in the future. Slower docs, coupled with electronic medical records, have really jammed up the system.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,074 posts, read 5,125,327 times
Reputation: 5767
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatima.spokane View Post
So much of the news and politics in the last year has been focused on the "rising costs of health care".......but, it doesn't seem like any of the debate focuses on WHY healthcare has become so expensive.....

first, think about the doctor before he actually becomes a doctor..his motives for wanting to become a doctor are important because if all a person really is after is a big paycheck the quality of the care after the person becomes a doctor may not be what the world needs at all....then think about how much money the person invests in becoming a doctor (higher education costs, basic cost of living, and then the emergency happenings you did not plan on happening - ie car wrecks).

Now that being said, think about what you personally are passionate about, does it co-inside with your job?

shouldn't it?

And when you think about your health do you want your doctor to be a person who is motivated mostly by money? Its kinda like when you take your car to a repair shop and they tell you the car needs this and this and this plus it wouldn't be safe to let you leave the repair shop with your such and such in the extremely poor condition it is in, so the bill is astronomical, and you barely understand what the mechanic said....he knows things you don't, and the mechanic will always get your money because of this ....

is it MORAL to be a doctor and take advantage (making people have to pay to be healthy) of the ignorance of others?

Maybe a social change should devalue money and start putting more value on being passionate at what you do for a living, and taking care of your brother as you do for yourself.........because in the end, what really matters is not MONEY....
Your post has a major disconnect in it. Do you believe that following your passion in work is disconnected from monetary rewards? I buy cars from a car guy--he is passionate about cars. His dealerships are extremely successful. I am passionate about my business, and customers know it and appreciate it and reward me by doing business with me. My grocer is passionate about helping people feed their families, and his store is very successful.

For these people, financial success is a byproduct of combining one's passion with one's life work. No need to devalue money--it's the scorecard that measures how many people want to do business.

Is it moral to ask dedicated professionals to work for free? When I pay the doctor, it is because I would rather take advantage of his expertise than have the money it costs.

Taking care of my brothers as I do myself? What are they, chopped liver? It's kind of an insult to my brothers to suggest they need help feeding their children, housing their families, and taking care of their own needs. If you are talking about somebody who is unable to be of value to others to earn their own way, sure--they shouldn't starve to death or freeze to death or die from lack of medical attention. That's why I send in so much money in taxes: for food stamps, public housing, medicare/medicaid. If you are suggesting that the life I work hard for should just be divided up pro-rata among everybody else, good luck with that. I'll work on my suntan, and join the line of teet-suckers.

Passion breeds excellence; excellence brings rewards. No mystery there.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,999 posts, read 3,753,372 times
Reputation: 2372
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatima.spokane View Post
So much of the news and politics in the last year has been focused on the "rising costs of health care".......but, it doesn't seem like any of the debate focuses on WHY healthcare has become so expensive.....

first, think about the doctor before he actually becomes a doctor..his motives for wanting to become a doctor are important because if all a person really is after is a big paycheck the quality of the care after the person becomes a doctor may not be what the world needs at all....then think about how much money the person invests in becoming a doctor (higher education costs, basic cost of living, and then the emergency happenings you did not plan on happening - ie car wrecks).

Now that being said, think about what you personally are passionate about, does it co-inside with your job?

shouldn't it?

And when you think about your health do you want your doctor to be a person who is motivated mostly by money? Its kinda like when you take your car to a repair shop and they tell you the car needs this and this and this plus it wouldn't be safe to let you leave the repair shop with your such and such in the extremely poor condition it is in, so the bill is astronomical, and you barely understand what the mechanic said....he knows things you don't, and the mechanic will always get your money because of this ....

is it MORAL to be a doctor and take advantage (making people have to pay to be healthy) of the ignorance of others?

Maybe a social change should devalue money and start putting more value on being passionate at what you do for a living, and taking care of your brother as you do for yourself.........because in the end, what really matters is not MONEY....
Sadly, this is America where most people worhip money, bailout the richest and denegrate the poorest. Just look at Giftmas. Most christians don't even celebrate 12/25 because it's allegedly (not even) their alleged gods birthday. It's all about money and gifts. Americans like to talk a good moral game but they'd rather make money. That's it. You will likely be flamed for not worshipping at the alter of the dolla dolla bill.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,965 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31376
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Labor costs have little to do with the cost of health care. I posted an excellent article on the recent health insurance bill and why health care is expensive in this country. Many doctors and nurses are actually underpaid and under-appreciated for the work they do. Plus, making something a "not for profit" entity doesn't mean that the entity doesn't make money, it just has to do with distribution of net profits in bonus, which usually don't go workers anyway. Many hospitals are already not-for-profit. The health care situation won't improve in this country until people start looking at the real reasons why health care is so expensive and stop blaming the people who provide health care.
This post says it best.

Actually, most hospitals are non-profit, or government supported, e.g. University of Colorado Hospital, etc.
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