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Old 01-02-2012, 12:09 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521

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Too big to fail = Fascism
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:17 PM
 
Location: The Nanny State of MD
1,438 posts, read 1,146,151 times
Reputation: 510
Both Roosevelts sucked, especially the 2nd one. I have a nice long list of presidents that sucked, at the top is Andrew Jackson, 2nd goes to Obama.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,481,332 times
Reputation: 3133
I put Lincoln first, Washington second, and FDR 3rd. That still makes him among the greats.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Sarasota FL
6,864 posts, read 12,078,177 times
Reputation: 6744
FDR- first president to brainwash people that government can take care of them from craddle to grave.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,483,709 times
Reputation: 9618
F.D. Roosevelt, found in Mussolini's policies part of his inspiration for the semi-socialist "New Deal" and referred to Mussolini in 1933 as "that admirable Italian gentleman". Mussolini was plausible to an amazingly wide range of people -- not the least to the people of Italy.

And Roosevelt and his political allies practiced what they preached. As UPI financial journalist Martin Hutchinson has pointed out, the USA in the 1940s was a place "with price controls, government licensing of transportation, state intervention in the steel and auto industries, interest rates that were set by Treasury fiat and a capital market in which banks were not allowed to operate. Also a "democracy" in which electoral districts were wildly unequal and 15 percent of the population was denied the vote." By modern-day standards the USA of that time had considerable Fascist elements too. American Leftism was Fascist even then.



In 1954, Hofstadter chided those who had worried about "several close parallels" between FDR's N.R.A. and fascist corporatism. There are more than "several" parallels. In 1944, John T. Flynn made the case in As We Go Marching, where he enumerated the stigmata of generic fascism, surveyed the interwar policies of Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, and pointed to uncomfortably similar American policies. For Flynn, the hallmarks of fascism were: 1) unrestrained government; 2) an absolute leader responsible to a single party; 3) a planned economy with nominal private ownership of the means of production; 4) bureaucracy and administrative "law"; 5) state control of the financial sector; 6) permanent economic manipulation via deficit spending; 7) militarism, and 8) imperialism (pp. 161-62). He proceeded to show that all these were alive and well under the wartime New Deal administration (pp. 166-258). Pragmatic American liberalism had produced "a genteel fascism" without the ethnic persecutions and full-scale executive dictatorship seen overseas.


There is practically no feature of modern-day Leftism that was not prefigured by Mussolini. It is clear from the many quotations and reports that are available (only a fraction of which are reproduced here) that Mussolini was very much a kindred spirit of modern-day Leftists. It is therefore hilarious that Leftists now use the name of his movement as their routine term of abuse! Ignorance of history does indeed lead to some strange follies.

He started out as such a radical unionist firebrand and Marxist agitator that he was often jailed for his pains. But as he matured he moved towards somewhat more moderate politics which saw him win power by political rather than by revolutionary means. Modern day Leftists seem to be the same. The young go out demonstrating against globalization and the like while older Leftists exert their efforts within the framework of conventional democratic politics -- via the major Leftist political parties.

And no-one was a more ardent advocate of government provision of basic services than Mussolini was -- and he actually put those ideas into practice on a large scale as well. And he also instituted a "welfare state" that was very advanced for the times.

In his "corporate state", Mussolini was the first to create that very modern phenomenon constantly now being advocated by Leftists everywhere -- a system of capitalism under tight government control. And his corporate state was one where the workers had (at least in theory) equal rights with management. He actually put into full-blown practice what is still a great but rather misty ideal for most Leftists.

american liberalism is fascism
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,847,392 times
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Didn't FDR go to war against Mussolini?
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Limbo
6,512 posts, read 7,549,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
I put Lincoln first, Washington second, and FDR 3rd. That still makes him among the greats.
Agreed.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:08 PM
 
78,408 posts, read 60,593,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy View Post
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR) is the GREATEST President of all time. Elected FOUR times as President in landslide elections by Americans, he was the longest serving and most consequential President ever to take office. He, NOT Reagan made us a Superpower by giving us a nuclear detterrent. He saved the country from sure collapse during the Great Depression and restored our economy.

He created the only social safety net that America has: Social Security and Medicare -- two things that are staples of American life today and two things that have preserved our standard of living over the years. Republicans, including Reagan have tried time and time again to destroy these popular programs but failed miserably.

As much as Republicans protest, Social Security and Medicare are incredibly popular with Americans. If you don't believe me ask the average Joe out there if he would voluntarily give up his social security and Medicare. To prove my point, even the most rabid Teabaggers shout: "Get your hands off my Medicare!" at Tea Party rallies. No past President can claim such a lasting influence on American society, not even Abraham Lincoln.

More than any other President, FDR commanded the faith of the American people. He also laid the groundwork for America's victory in World War II. If it wasn't for FDR, America would have succummed to the Great Depression, lost WWII and be a territory of Germany today.

In fact it was due to FDR's incredible success at winning elections why Congress amended the Constitution to implement term limits as Americans seem intent on electing him forever.

I'm sorry Teabaggers, but your guy Reagan is an after thought in a match up with America's greatest President: Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
What's with the sex act reference? You make all these points and then basically blow your foot off with your ending salvo making you look and sound juvenile.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:17 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,742,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
"sure collapse"???

Save the propaganda.

When did unemployment decline under Roosevelt?


Roosevelt was president at a time in which Communism was seen as a viable alternative to regulated Capitalism. As in the adolescent Communist states of the time, the wild claims his administration made about the ability of government to deliver for the masses went unchallenged. No one knew at the time how thoroughly Communism would fail in the decades to come, so FDR, likewise, got the benefit of the doubt when his rosy predictions failed to materialize.


A decade spent flirting with collectivism accomplished nothing.


“We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . We have never made good on our promises. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”

- Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau
Since you asked when unemployment declined under FDR's tenure (and I'm surprised no one answered this), I'll gladly answer your question. You don't have to look any further than this graph...

The unemployment rate declined 5%, then hit pre-depression levels thanks to World War II (read MILITARY KEYNESIAN ECONOMICS)

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Old 01-02-2012, 05:20 PM
 
629 posts, read 771,820 times
Reputation: 364
FDR was coked up when he wrote the "this day will live in infamy" speech
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