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Old 01-18-2012, 10:04 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,586,370 times
Reputation: 2880

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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
What an idiotic protest. As usual, people need to learn the facts of the bill and quit listening to those with vested interest in preventing it.

Text of H.R.3261 as Introduced in House: Stop Online Piracy Act - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

Plus, if you really need Wiki for some reason, hit the ESC key a few time when you first go into the Wiki answer. That blocks the blackout script.
Here's all you need to know: The bill tells the government that they have jurisdiction everywhere in the world, no matter if they do or not. The bill tells the ISP's that they will have an obligation to actively seek out and censor web sites from customers. The bill tells the web sites that if they ever even so much as accidentally link to a site that has one piece of pirated material on that linked site anywhere, no matter how deep it's buried, that the company can lose its website.

It's bad, from top to bottom. It is not the government's place nor its role to censor the global network.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:13 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,462,379 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
Here's all you need to know: The bill tells the government that they have jurisdiction everywhere in the world, no matter if they do or not. The bill tells the ISP's that they will have an obligation to actively seek out and censor web sites from customers. The bill tells the web sites that if they ever even so much as accidentally link to a site that has one piece of pirated material on that linked site anywhere, no matter how deep it's buried, that the company can lose its website.

It's bad, from top to bottom. It is not the government's place nor its role to censor the global network.
Not only that but what's the reason? To keep rich companies rich? Is it really worth taking away our freedom of speech in the name of keeping a few people's wallets fat?
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:13 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,586,370 times
Reputation: 2880
What I find amazing in this thread is this:

Many of the same posters I see (rightly) railing against nanny state maneuvers by the government....are in favor of this nanny stating by the government.

And once the line is crossed, where does it stop? If we allow them this little step, they're going to eventually go "Well, we already censor this, so we need to be able to censor what we term to be "propaganda" (read: Any news we don't like)". And then they'll go "Well, we're already censoring "propaganda", so what's the big deal if we censor foreign companies that we don't approve of?" Then it'll turn into "Well, we're already censoring all this other stuff, we need to start banning people who post things on Facebook we don't like". This is nothing but the first big step on a play to control the flow of information. If this passes, by the time I die, our access to informatoin will be no better than the Iraqis who were told they still held the Baghdad Airport while the rest of the world was looking at video of US troops all over the place, chilling out. Any information we will be provided will be heavily filtered and edited so that we only get what someone else wants us to have.

You give government an inch, and they take 40 miles.

And then what about the "unintended consequences"? Sites like Reddit? They go dark. All those jobs are lost. Google? They start laying people off. Gizmodo, 1up, so on and so forth? All of them either go dark or drastically reduce staff. This is a fact. You may not have heard of these sites, but most people have. You may not care that you can't use Wikipedia for a day, but the fact is it's one of the 5 most visited sites in the world. You use Facebook, right? Well, guess what? Facebook takes a huge beating if this passes (not to mention a lot of layoffs). Smaller service providers will sell out to larger providers, and those jobs will be lost. The ONE thing that has kept this economy afloat the last few years has been the tech sector - now government wants to ravage it?

And what will it accomplish? NOTHING. Go look up government's history of trying to quash The Pirate Bay. It NEVER works. People always find a way to do underhanded things. All this will hurt is legitimate enterprise.

I'm usually willing to see both sides of an argument, but on this one? If you're for this bill, you're a flipping moron. There is no wiggle room on this. Only idiots, geezers who don't understand the world today, and corporatists are for this.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:15 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,462,379 times
Reputation: 12597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
What I find amazing in this thread is this:

Many of the same posters I see (rightly) railing against nanny state maneuvers by the government....are in favor of this nanny stating by the government.

And once the line is crossed, where does it stop? If we allow them this little step, they're going to eventually go "Well, we already censor this, so we need to be able to censor what we term to be "propaganda" (read: Any news we don't like)". And then they'll go "Well, we're already censoring "propaganda", so what's the big deal if we censor foreign companies that we don't approve of?" Then it'll turn into "Well, we're already censoring all this other stuff, we need to start banning people who post things on Facebook we don't like".

You give government an inch, and they take 40 miles.

And then what about the "unintended consequences"? Sites like Reddit? They go dark. All those jobs are lost. Google? They start laying people off. Gizmodo, 1up, so on and so forth? All of them either go dark or drastically reduce staff. This is a fact. You may not have heard of these sites, but most people have. You may not care that you can't use Wikipedia for a day, but the fact is it's one of the 5 most visited sites in the world. You use Facebook, right? Well, guess what? Facebook takes a huge beating if this passes (not to mention a lot of layoffs). Smaller service providers will sell out to larger providers, and those jobs will be lost. The ONE thing that has kept this economy afloat the last few years has been the tech sector - now government wants to ravage it?

And what will it accomplish? NOTHING. Go look up government's history of trying to quash The Pirate Bay. It NEVER works. People always find a way to do underhanded things. All this will hurt is legitimate enterprise.

I'm usually willing to see both sides of an argument, but on this one? If you're for this bill, you're a flipping moron. There is no wiggle room on this. Only idiots, geezers who don't understand the world today, and corporatists are for this.
I'm really surprised Facebook and YouTube aren't doing anything about this. Not even a black bar or anything.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
Here's all you need to know: The bill tells the government that they have jurisdiction everywhere in the world, no matter if they do or not. The bill tells the ISP's that they will have an obligation to actively seek out and censor web sites from customers. The bill tells the web sites that if they ever even so much as accidentally link to a site that has one piece of pirated material on that linked site anywhere, no matter how deep it's buried, that the company can lose its website.

It's bad, from top to bottom. It is not the government's place nor its role to censor the global network.
In Germany a court decided in 2010 that a website is not responsible for the content of other sites it links to.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:18 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,586,370 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I'm really surprised Facebook and YouTube aren't doing anything about this. Not even a black bar or anything.
Youtube is Google. They're doing something on their main site.

Facebook has publicly come out against this, but Zuckerberg's gotta keep the machine flowing while it's pre-IPO.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: PNW, CPSouth, JacksonHole, Southampton
3,734 posts, read 5,772,817 times
Reputation: 15103
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardianlady View Post
Buy a dictionary or an encyclopedia.Knowledge needs to be paid for .
There's a problem with that. Paying for knowledge has become quite an iffy proposition. We no longer live in a world dominated by people who value knowledge for its own sake. We no longer live in a world dominated by people wired for honesty and rationality.

First, as young parents, we noticed that National Geographic seemed to be pandering to Big Religion...filtering out that which might offend the big, pushy religions which had historically sought to turn their adherents into baby machines. So, we cancelled our subscription. And so it's been going, for quite a while. Little by little, we've noticed "reporting" and "research" becoming more agenda-based, and less 'truth-based'. As the lies got bigger and more blatant, we cancelled more.

Frankly, I have more confidence in small online sources, than in the big, more 'professional' ones.

SOPA will favor the big, vetted, Lawyer-Approved, Diversity Office Approved, politically-correct, faux-'hip', faux-rebellious sources, which carefully will feed us the version of 'reality' which has been approved. We will only be shown the little distorted pieces of the big picture, which, when assembled in our minds, will become the big, distorted, worldview the powerful wish us to have.

What many fail to realize is that it isn't just the Good Guys who read Brave New World. The Bad Guys read it too: and they're using it as a blueprint.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:20 AM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,586,370 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
In Germany a court decided in 2010 that a website is not responsible for the content of other sites it links to.
But that's Germany. This is the US. And, as this bill tries to claim, only the US's opinion matters, since it would try to give the US authority to seize, shut down, or regulate websites all over the world, no matter where they are. Regardless of whether the country the site is based in agrees or not.

You know, because we're so awesome.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I'm really surprised Facebook and YouTube aren't doing anything about this. Not even a black bar or anything.
Youtube seems somehow caught in that legal mess, they probably don't dare protest against those lobby groups representing record labels they are dealing with. Would be a bit hypocritical
I read somewhere that Youtube has granted some labels the right to remove content themselves without even telling Youtube.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
But that's Germany. This is the US. And, as this bill tries to claim, only the US's opinion matters, since it would try to give the US authority to seize, shut down, or regulate websites all over the world, no matter where they are. Regardless of whether the country the site is based in agrees or not.

You know, because we're so awesome.
Maybe this would lead to Europe starting its own Internet. China is also working on its own Internet. .eu sites are already out of reach as they are not governed by any US body, unlike .com, .org etc.
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