Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And I think if the church wedding is completely separate from the legal union part of it, you'd be right.
I think the word marriage should be removed from the legal definition completely, for all couples, men, women, whomever. Let them all have civil unions.
If your church doesn't want to "marry" you, which is a religious ceremony, no group can argue with that, as its a private ceremony. The government can not interfere in religion.
But you have to completely remove the religious portion of marriage from the state.
Now, that also means that if a religion wants to allow marriage of homosexuals, then that would be protected also. Remember though, marriage means nothing legally under this situation. Until they signed a joint civil union contract, it isn't "legal".
Sadly, what will happen is that "gay churches" would pop up all of the US for the express purpose of letting gays "get married". Like I said, it's not about having full rights anymore. It's about being able to do exactly what straight people do; even if they don't even agree with the religious reasons behind the union. The attitude would become: "If straight people can get married in a church, so can we!"
Sadly, what will happen is that "gay churches" would pop up all of the US for the express purpose of letting gays "get married". Like I said, it's not about having full rights anymore. It's about being able to do exactly what straight people do; even if they don't even agree with the religious reasons behind the union. The attitude would become: "If straight people can get married in a church, so can we!"
Aren't we a country that allows all faiths?
Why should anyone tell a church they must, or must not marry people of the same gender?
Why should anyone tell a church they must, or must not marry people of the same gender?
Because the spirit of these "gay churches" being founded would be disingenous. They're not opening churches to assist people in coming closer to God, seek salvation, etc. The purpose would be to allow gays to marry in a church. That is not what churches are about and to twist it in this manner would be a very sad thing.
As I've said before, many of the gay people on this forum mock religion and God....so why on Earth would you want to be married in a church? Seriously, I don't get it. I'm Christian, therefore I don't get pissed that I can't get married in a synagogue. Furthermore, I wouldn't even want to because their teachings don't align with my beliefs.
Because the spirit of these "gay churches" being founded would be disingenous. They're not opening churches to assist people in coming closer to God, seek salvation, etc. The purpose would be to allow gays to marry in a church. That is not what churches are about and to twist it in this manner would be a very sad thing.
A church that openly accepts gays, does not mean that's its exclusive purpose. Most Jewish congregations in the United States are gay accepting. Does that mean Synagogues are disingenuous?
And like it or not, you do not get to dictate what constitutes a "church" or what beliefs people share. Most people don't like your particularly brand of Christianity either.
Quote:
As I've said before, many of the gay people on this forum mock religion and God....so why on Earth would you want to be married in a church? Seriously, I don't get it. I'm Christian, therefore I don't get pissed that I can't get married in a synagogue. Furthermore, I wouldn't even want to because their teachings don't align with my beliefs.
There are probably more gay Christians in the world than not. Just because this board has many atheists on it, doesn't mean gay Christians don't exist. And there are plenty of churches who do not hold the disgusting legalistic views of Christian Conservatives.
Marriage is not a church institution. The Puritans brought Common Law marriage here from England, because Protestants opposed Christianity intertwining with marriage. It wasn't even until the 18th Century that England added a priest to officiate marriage.
Because the spirit of these "gay churches" being founded would be disingenous. They're not opening churches to assist people in coming closer to God, seek salvation, etc. The purpose would be to allow gays to marry in a church. That is not what churches are about and to twist it in this manner would be a very sad thing.
As I've said before, many of the gay people on this forum mock religion and God....so why on Earth would you want to be married in a church? Seriously, I don't get it. I'm Christian, therefore I don't get pissed that I can't get married in a synagogue. Furthermore, I wouldn't even want to because their teachings don't align with my beliefs.
we have lots of churches in the US that are formed so they can take advantage of being tax exempt. I have one right down the street from me. not all churches are opened because they want to bring people closer to god. they are plenty of sham churches.
lots of homosexuals believe in god, why wouldn't they want to be married in a church?
Sadly, what will happen is that "gay churches" would pop up all of the US for the express purpose of letting gays "get married". Like I said, it's not about having full rights anymore. It's about being able to do exactly what straight people do; even if they don't even agree with the religious reasons behind the union. The attitude would become: "If straight people can get married in a church, so can we!"
There are already churches that accept gays and already churches that conduct marriage ceremonies for gays - even in the states where the marriages are not legally recognized.
Are those churches any less of churches than your church?
A church that openly accepts gays, does not mean that's its exclusive purpose. Most Jewish congregations in the United States are gay accepting. Does that mean Synagogues are disingenuous?
Well, Jewish congregations attend synagogues. I don't choose to express an opinion on what synagogues do because I am not a part of that faith.
Quote:
And like it or not, you do not get to dictate what constitutes a "church" or what beliefs people share. Most people don't like your particularly brand of Christianity either.
I'm not dictating anything...merely expressing an opinion. What's my "particular brand of Christianity"? Seems to me like you're mocking Christianity, so again why would you want to be married in a church?
Quote:
There are probably more gay Christians in the world than not. Just because this board has many atheists on it, doesn't mean gay Christians don't exist. And there are plenty of churches who do not hold the disgusting legalistic views of Christian Conservatives.
Well, you're doing Christian gays a disservice with your mocking and expressed disdain for Christianity. What "disgusting legalistic views" are you referring to? And just to be clear, I'm far from a conservative. Believe it or not, there are liberals who are Christian.
Quote:
Marriage is not a church institution. The Puritans brought Common Law marriage here from England, because Protestants opposed Christianity intertwining with marriage. It wasn't even until the 18th Century that England added a priest to officiate marriage.
Sorry; like it or not, marriage is a religious ceremony.
we have lots of churches in the US that are formed so they can take advantage of being tax exempt. I have one right down the street from me. not all churches are opened because they want to bring people closer to god. they are plenty of sham churches.
lots of homosexuals believe in god, why wouldn't they want to be married in a church?
I don't agree with any church being formed unless it's to bring people to God and to teach about Christianity. As you indicate, they are sham churches. This would apply to "gay churches" opened for the express purpose of marrying gays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
There are already churches that accept gays and already churches that conduct marriage ceremonies for gays - even in the states where the marriages are not legally recognized.
Are those churches any less of churches than your church?
Yes (though I'm not referring to the specific church I attend).
Well, Jewish congregations attend synagogues. I don't choose to express an opinion on what synagogues do because I am not a part of that faith.
My point being, you claimed churches are for bringing people closer to God, and supporting gays is against that aim. Synagogues are also about bringing people closer to God, and seeing as it's the foundation of Christianity, the fact that their views on gays are far more tolerant than most Christians, shows there is no conflict.
Quote:
I'm not dictating anything...merely expressing an opinion. What's my "particular brand of Christianity"? Seems to me like you're mocking Christianity, so again why would you want to be married in a church?
I'm a Messianic Jew (the real kind, not the gentile wannabe Jews like Jews for Jesus). I only criticize the brands of organized religion that distort the image of God and do not follow the teachings of Jesus.
Quote:
Well, you're doing Christian gays a disservice with your mocking and expressed disdain for Christianity. What "disgusting legalistic views" are you referring to? And just to be clear, I'm far from a conservative. Believe it or not, there are liberals who are Christian.
I'm aware of that, I'm one of the liberal varieties. I'm not doing a disservice, I'm pointing out the flaws of conservative Christianity and why it's dangerous.
Your views certainly seem to align with Conservative Christianity more then liberal. What makes you view yourself as liberal?
Quote:
Sorry; like it or not, marriage is a religious ceremony.
History disagrees with you. Marriage predates religion, and for most of Judeo-Christian history, had nothing to do with it. You only believe it's a religious ceremony because you were raised into a society that has pushed it to be that way, not because that's how it's always been.
Sadly, what will happen is that "gay churches" would pop up all of the US for the express purpose of letting gays "get married". Like I said, it's not about having full rights anymore. It's about being able to do exactly what straight people do; even if they don't even agree with the religious reasons behind the union. The attitude would become: "If straight people can get married in a church, so can we!"
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
