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Old 01-11-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,287 posts, read 2,575,938 times
Reputation: 1955

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
Umm, maybe because TSA themselves don't treat these items as dangerous explosives. They toss them into regular old trash cans directly next to the checkpoint. If these items were so hazardous that they can't go pass the checkpoint, then why aren't they properly disposed of? I've worked in airports and I've seen TSA workers play "water bottle basketball" one too many times to believe these people think these items are a legit threat.
I asked that question myself on the TSA blog; if these items are a potential security threat and possibly explosives, why are they just tossed into a garbage bin? Shouldn't hazmat be involved and they disposed of properly.

The fact they sell these products or donate them to shelters tells me the TSA knows they are safe, yet they refuse to allow them through security.

Kabuki Theatre at its finest.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:49 PM
 
14,847 posts, read 8,477,152 times
Reputation: 7298
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
What would lead any sane person to hallucinate that we are spending "billions of taxpayer dollars on confiscating shampoo, mouthwash, cupcakes and then herding people through cancer causing radiation machines?"

Perhaps an accounting course is in order. Concentrate on "sunk costs" and "contribution margin."
The Department of Homeland Security (Zieg Heil .... err uh ... Yes We Can) annual budget is 52+ Billion, with a substantial amount of the allocated to TSA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
It is my deep hope that you are not a cost accountant.

How would those numbers change were we to stop confiscating toothpaste and cupcakes?
I believe the poster makes reference to the entirety of the TSA, with confiscating cupcakes as a euphemism to the overall job that they do that provides no security at all .... but does treat the American public like prison inmates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
But who would take such an argument seriously?
Actually, a substantial majority find the TSA and their behavior fantastically foul and inappropriate. Those that don't are the ones who suffer from some form of mental malfunction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post

Where do you live? Every place I have lived, the police have had exactly that mandate.
No ... that is just another example of you being uninformed and relying on your own false perceptions, rather than reality.

It's been found by the courts that the police have no fundamental obligation to protect an individual citizen.

EXCERPT:

Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third women, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed that the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs, they saw that, in fact, the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: "For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers." The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen" (Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)

The Ongoing "Police Protection" Scam.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,014,220 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
The Department of Homeland Security (Zieg Heil .... err uh ... Yes We Can) annual budget is 52+ Billion, with a substantial amount of the allocated to TSA.
Oh my... another amateur pretending to comment on cost accounting. I assure you, the percentage of that budget earmarked to confiscate cupcakes is small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
I believe the poster makes reference to the entirety of the TSA, with confiscating cupcakes as a euphemism to the overall job that they do that provides no security at all .... but does treat the American public like prison inmates.
And in so doing takes the argument from ridiculous to absurd. And anyone who believes they provide no security at all has already abdicated the argument in favor a descent into an alternate reality within which no argument is meaningful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Actually, a substantial majority find the TSA and their behavior fantastically foul and inappropriate. Those that don't are the ones who suffer from some form of mental malfunction.
Such a position can only be maintained by somebody who does not travel. I go through airports a minimum of 4 times a month. I have never once seen any behavior that was foul or inappropriate, nor have I ever seen a single person object to the security process or even complain about it. It is simply no big deal to almost 2 million Americans who fly every day.

This entire anti-TSA "thing" is frankly a bizarre artifact of the Web Forum Echo Chamber. Within the vast mainstream of actual people who are in a position to care, airport security is a minor annoyance and the TSA is simply an organization trying to do a tough job the best they can

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
No ... that is just another example of you being uninformed and relying on your own false perceptions, rather than reality.
LOL... sorry guy, but you abdicated the right to take any such a position months ago when you insisted that "thermic lances" had something to do with thermite.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:10 PM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,170,831 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
So the cupcake icing went over the limit ? I would have just licked some off and asked.."Is this OK now?"

That's the common sense way to handle it, and the way I've seen in handled in buildings with tight security--if you're willing to take a drink out of that bottle of water, or eat a bite out of whatever you're holding, there's about zero chance that it's a bomb. Unfortunately, common sense seems to be pretty hard to find these days, especially with the TSA.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,014,220 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
I asked that question myself on the TSA blog; if these items are a potential security threat and possibly explosives, why are they just tossed into a garbage bin? Shouldn't hazmat be involved and they disposed of properly.
Not really. The threat being addressed is one in which the "weapon" is assembled from components in flight. The components sitting disassembled in a garbage can are not much of a threat.

Any risk analysis takes further into account that a small explosion in a garbage can is different from a small explosion in a pressurized aircraft at 30,000 feet.Certainly a moments thought will make some sense out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy
The fact they sell these products or donate them to shelters tells me the TSA knows they are safe, yet they refuse to allow them through security.
That is simply because you really haven't thought very hard on the subject. And that is what terrorists count on.

Fortunately, we have professionals who do think hard about it.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,083 posts, read 20,399,403 times
Reputation: 10343
I nearly choked on a cupcake once.

[dangerous...]
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,141,708 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Not really. The threat being addressed is one in which the "weapon" is assembled from components in flight. The components sitting disassembled in a garbage can are not much of a threat.

Any risk analysis takes further into account that a small explosion in a garbage can is different from a small explosion in a pressurized aircraft at 30,000 feet.Certainly a moments thought will make some sense out of it.


That is simply because you really haven't thought very hard on the subject. And that is what terrorists count on.

Fortunately, we have professionals who do think hard about it.
Ultimately no one will be allowed past security because everything, including the passenger, will be deemed "a threat".

Where do you stop ? Or you don't ?
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,290 posts, read 15,231,187 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
but does treat the American public
It's not only the American public who is subject to inspection by the TSA. (I would make a joke about American's privates, but that would be childish) It's anyone, of any nationality, who chooses to fly within the US.

Quote:
Actually, a substantial majority find the TSA and their behavior fantastically foul and inappropriate. Those that don't are the ones who suffer from some form of mental malfunction.
What is your opinion of the mental function of those who make up statistics and claims about a person's mental state ?
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:14 PM
 
16,956 posts, read 16,670,197 times
Reputation: 10408
Okay, this is a true story:

I bought a cake in Long Island and actually took 1/2 of it back home to vegas in a cake box. When I got to security, the Agent said, "Is that a cake?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Whipped Cream?" I said, "Oh, heck no, that's Buttercream icing" He said, "Okay, pass through" lol...!
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,014,220 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Ultimately no one will be allowed past security because everything, including the passenger, will be deemed "a threat".
Well, there you go. Comments and assertions don't get a whole lot dumber than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Where do you stop ? Or you don't ?
Somewhere between no one being allowed past security and making a big deal about losing a cup-cake.
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