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Well, there are a lot of social problems in the black community that have nothing to do with the rates of marriage...rates of marriage are simply correlated with real ills such as teenage pregnancy and promiscuity. Plenty of people have cohesive and functional family units without marriage, and there are plenty of dysfunctional marriages.
I'm a college educated, psychologically intact, and put together woman who doesn't want to get married, but is open to having children. I'm not worried about society's assorted ills.
Most 'social problems' can be traced back to pathological socialization patterns.
Note: This thread wasn't created to battle those who believe that it's ok to live a carefree lifestyle, without thinking about children or society at large.
Last edited by HoneyBee2010; 01-15-2012 at 01:38 PM..
I don't see the importance of having a piece of a paper between two committed individuals. I'm an atheist libertarian and I don't support the union of marriage and State to begin with firstly, so with my options being a church or Justice of the Peace I say neither. You don't have to be legally married to raise a child in a two parent household (assuming that's what you meant by "two family house hold"). I am doing what's best for me and my progeny, so please get off your sanctimonious high horse.
I don't give a crap if you're in your twenties and have never gotten laid. That's your business, just like what you do with your womb. It doesn't pertain to me, and I find your whole tirade both amusing and misguided.
Please refrain from bringing negative energy and divisiveness into this thread.
You are a college educated 'put together' woman, but you're open to having children out of wedlock, without a husband? I'm a bit confused as to why a self proclaimed 'put together' woman wouldn't see the importance of marriage and raising children in a stable two family household. At the end of the day, mature 'put together' women and men do what's best for themselves and their progeny.
Modern pop culture has shifted the thinking from the family unit to 'me, me, me.' It's all about the individual, never about what's best for children and the greater community.
This is the other stereotype of Black women that I forgot to add...the "I'm an independent Black woman, I don't need a man" stereotype. These women have been mislead to think that it's ok for them to have a child out of wedlock because they are college educated and have a good job. And while they may be able to financially support the child with no issues, their shortsightedness simply contributes to that glaringly sad statistic.
These women willfully and deliberately deny their children the benefit of growing up in a 2-parent household and the problems that follow are boys that grow up not knowing what it is to be men or how to treat women. The girls do not know what it is like to be a wife because their mother was not a wife and potentially repeat the cycle by having children out of wedlock. The children are exposed to the men that come into and out of their mother's lives during their childhood (not to mention the children who are exposed to men who prey upon single mothers to get to the children).
I don't see the importance of having a piece of a paper between two committed individuals. I'm an atheist libertarian and I don't support the union of marriage and State to begin with firstly, so with my options being a church or Justice of the Peace I say neither. You don't have to be legally married to raise a child in a two parent household (assuming that's what you meant by "two family house hold"). I am doing what's best for me and my progeny, so please get off your sanctimonious high horse.
I don't give a crap if you're in your twenties and have never gotten laid. That's your business, just like what you do with your womb. It doesn't pertain to me, and I find your whole tirade both amusing and misguided.
KUDOS to you! I feel much the same way about marriage and probably won't get married unless my partner really wanted it and for legal issues (hospital, inheritance, etc). A piece of paper doesn't change the relationship. If the relationship is problematic, a marriage license and some vows aren't going to change it. If the relationship is perfect, again, marriage isn't going to change it. IMHO, the institution of marriage exist mainly for tax/government purposes .
I grew up in a two parent household. My parents weren't wealthy but they worked their butts off to enroll me in a private school and meet my needs. I graduated from a top high school and got a great education. No drugs, no pregnancy, no arrests. I was around 17 when I learned that my parents weren't legally married. Did it change anything? Nope. You don't need to be married to be good parents.
This sounds like a race baiting thread.
Why are black women always the ones up for discussion?
Why are they always stereotyped negatively?
Why oh Why oh Why?
For the record, I am a black woman from Africa, multiple degrees, no children and my family has never had a kid out of wedlock. Marriage is highly prized where I'm from. My friends are the same way.
Black women are not a monolithic group
No one is arguing that they are a monolith but you. While your family may not have any out of wedlock births many black families do or the rate wouldn't be 70%.
Can we have an intelligent discussion without someone citing anecdotal evidence as some sort of counter to statistically backed analysis?
Out of wedlock births has been cited as far back as the 60s as the main source of dysfunction in Black American communities. So I'm not exactly seeing how this thread is race baiting when the OP and the first several posters claim to be black.
This is the other stereotype of Black women that I forgot to add...the "I'm an independent Black woman, I don't need a man" stereotype. These women have been mislead to think that it's ok for them to have a child out of wedlock because they are college educated and have a good job. And while they may be able to financially support the child with no issues, their shortsightedness simply contributes to that glaringly sad statistic.
These women willfully and deliberately deny their children the benefit of growing up in a 2-parent household and the problems that follow are boys that grow up not knowing what it is to be men or how to treat women. The girls do not know what it is like to be a wife because their mother was not a wife and potentially repeat the cycle by having children out of wedlock. The children are exposed to the men that come into and out of their mother's lives during their childhood (not to mention the children who are exposed to men who prey upon single mothers to get to the children).
This particular mindset has damaged far too many black women. In their minds, they are super women.
Sadly, I think that there are a few factors at work regarding this issue...
1) Too many African American women accept less than complete fidelity and comittment from African American men. There is a lot a sharing of men (knowingly or not)
2) Having children out of wedlock has been "normalized" by too many families. The stigma has been removed and the shame that should be there as a deterrent is no longer there.
3) The perception that there are fewer men available for African American women. Allowing African American men to take "advantage" of the shortage of good Black men mantra.
4) The refusal of many African American women to date/have relationships/marry non-Black men
5) The acceptance and internaliztion of the hypersexuality of African American women. Many African American women (the younger women and girls) have taken on the persona that has been put forth as the "ideal" as interpretted by hip-hop/rap artists...the Video Vixen...and all that goes along with that persona which includes accepting misogyny and objectification.
6) The acceptance and internalization of the negative images and stereotypes placed upon African American women by the larger society. The Mammy (issues with being overweight/obese), the "sapphire" (issues with attitude/b-tchiness), the Jezebel (sexually promiscuous), the Tragic Mullato (the Halle Berry syndrome - praised for beauty but crazy, confused, mental), the Sanctified Lady (one who is obsessed with church and religious to the extreme), the Welfare Queen (low or no expectations in life)
7) The family structure for African Americans has been schewed since slavery. There was really no such thing as "marriages" during slavery (unless the master was kind enough to acknowledge when two slaves were in love and allowed them to jump the broom)
Wow a post of yours where I actually agree with you. Except the shortage of black men thing is real although not as dire as it is made out to be in the media.
I don't see the importance of having a piece of a paper between two committed individuals. I'm an atheist libertarian and I don't support the union of marriage and State to begin with firstly, so with my options being a church or Justice of the Peace I say neither. You don't have to be legally married to raise a child in a two parent household (assuming that's what you meant by "two family house hold"). I am doing what's best for me and my progeny, so please get off your sanctimonious high horse.
I don't give a crap if you're in your twenties and have never gotten laid. That's your business, just like what you do with your womb. It doesn't pertain to me, and I find your whole tirade both amusing and misguided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee
KUDOS to you! I feel much the same way about marriage and probably won't get married unless my partner really wanted it and for legal issues (hospital, inheritance, etc). A piece of paper doesn't change the relationship. If the relationship is problematic, a marriage license and some vows aren't going to change it. If the relationship is perfect, again, marriage isn't going to change it. IMHO, the institution of marriage exist mainly for tax/government purposes .
I grew up in a two parent household. My parents weren't wealthy but they worked their butts off to enroll me in a private school and meet my needs. I graduated from a top high school and got a great education. No drugs, no pregnancy, no arrests. I was around 17 when I learned that my parents weren't legally married. Did it change anything? Nope. You don't need to be married to be good parents.
What's interesting is this viewpoint is pushed a lot by white liberals but interestingly enough they have the highest marriage percentages in the country.
While white feminists were pushing free sex and the like most still got married and had kids. It's a shame many Black women bought into the feminist mantra to the detriment of the black community.
This is the other stereotype of Black women that I forgot to add...the "I'm an independent Black woman, I don't need a man" stereotype. These women have been mislead to think that it's ok for them to have a child out of wedlock because they are college educated and have a good job. And while they may be able to financially support the child with no issues, their shortsightedness simply contributes to that glaringly sad statistic.
These women willfully and deliberately deny their children the benefit of growing up in a 2-parent household and the problems that follow are boys that grow up not knowing what it is to be men or how to treat women. The girls do not know what it is like to be a wife because their mother was not a wife and potentially repeat the cycle by having children out of wedlock. The children are exposed to the men that come into and out of their mother's lives during their childhood (not to mention the children who are exposed to men who prey upon single mothers to get to the children).
While I agree with what you are saying, I think many women adopted this attitude out of necessity. Many black women were forced to become independent due to the absence of the black male. If black women were to say, "I DO need a man as a husband and father.", how many college educated black men would be there?
While I agree with what you are saying, I think many women adopted this attitude out of necessity. Many black women were forced to become independent due to the absence of the black male. If black women were to say, "I DO need a man as head of the house.", how many college educated black men would be there?
Quite a few actually but what are these women bringing to the table?
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