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View Poll Results: What option do you like better?
Building a 1600 mile oil pipeline that goes across the US 15 40.54%
Building a refinery in North Dakota 22 59.46%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-25-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 28,202,388 times
Reputation: 4269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
I have a serious question for everybody that is going insane about the Keystone pipeline not being built.

What's the reason for building it?
If it is to get the oil to the refineries, wouldn't it be easier to just build a refinery in North Dakota?
Do you know why there haven't been any refineries built in the US in over 30 years? It takes all that building money to rebuild existing refineries to keep them up with EPA regulations. Do you have any idea what it takes in money to build one of those things big enough to take care of that area? Do you have any idea how many years that construction would take. It just isn't as simple as Prince Barack waving his wand and proclaiming it there. Hell, it would be behind regulations before it was completed.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:41 PM
 
50,484 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15770
What makes me the angriest about this whole pipeline deal is the fact that a Canadian company attempted to strongarm Americans citizens by threatening Eminent Domain.

So as far as i'm concerned, they can go screw themselves.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,722 posts, read 4,427,474 times
Reputation: 1376
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Do you know why there haven't been any refineries built in the US in over 30 years? It takes all that building money to rebuild existing refineries to keep them up with EPA regulations. Do you have any idea what it takes in money to build one of those things big enough to take care of that area? Do you have any idea how many years that construction would take. It just isn't as simple as Prince Barack waving his wand and proclaiming it there. Hell, it would be behind regulations before it was completed.
Then build the refineries in Canada. Then they could keep the toxic waste up there and send us the final products.... Of course, truth be told this stuff isn't even meant for our markets.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:49 AM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,989,385 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus10 View Post
Yes... everything was a go except for the re-route of Nebraska. But now the whole project has been shut down.

This is what gets to me most... people think that oh hey.. just build another refinery. I grew up in a refinery town. My father worked for Texaco refining for 30+ years. You think that the pipeline does damage? You ain't seen nothing yet. The pipeline is the safest, cleanest, least damaging of all our options to get crude, gas, oil, diesel, etc from point A to point B. And all our "greenie" friends keep talking about harming the environment. Yet, they are still driving their cars, heating their homes, and biting the hands that feed them.

Even those of us in the industry would love to have other forms of green energy. But... until that happens (and we have the infrastructure to deal with it!) they have no choice but to deal with pipelines. I'd love to see us head to a more natural gas type situation, but would they be willing to let us lay the lines to do that... Nope... they'd find some reason to complain and protest.
You know better than this. As we have discussed repeatedly, the State Department--Obama's state department--tried to rush the first permit through and force the route through the sand hills. The R's here fought back. We're waiting for the final environmental impact plan for the reroute, which our REPUBLICAN governor estimates will be completed by summer. Obama refused to give it an all clear until that plan is completed, including spelling out the details on safety measures that will be taken. When it's completed, he'll sign it. In the meantime, Trans Canada has announced their plan to work on segments of the line through the rest of the country, and then tie it all together when the permit is approved. I'm a native Nebraskan--I can't believe the amount of misinformation that's been spread about this issue. It's all hysteria and panic over NOTHING.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,882,906 times
Reputation: 12178
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Do you know why there haven't been any refineries built in the US in over 30 years? It takes all that building money to rebuild existing refineries to keep them up with EPA regulations. Do you have any idea what it takes in money to build one of those things big enough to take care of that area? Do you have any idea how many years that construction would take. It just isn't as simple as Prince Barack waving his wand and proclaiming it there. Hell, it would be behind regulations before it was completed.
Well, you are no supporter of building new refineries, in fact an opponent of it. You prefer the pipeline route because you've bought whatever the snake-oil salesman had in mind to sell you. EPA is merely an excuse (which also furthers their cause), to that effect.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:02 AM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,989,385 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
What makes me the angriest about this whole pipeline deal is the fact that a Canadian company attempted to strongarm Americans citizens by threatening Eminent Domain.

So as far as i'm concerned, they can go screw themselves.
I'm a native Nebraskan. I'm not opposed to the line in theory, especially now that they're moving it out of the sand hills, but Trans Canada was way out of bounds in the way they handled this. They told land owners here that they had 30 days to sell their land, or they'd take it--all without the permit even being approved. Many people refused to be bullied--why would you sell your land to a company when you don't even know if the project is going to be approved? THEN, when they couldn't purchase the land on the time line they wanted, Trans Canada went in and started clearing away prairie grass on PRIVATE LAND--they just showed up on ranches and started mowing even if the rancher had refused to sell. Normally mowing grass wouldn't be a big deal, but the Sand Hills are literally deep hills of sand covered with grass that holds it in place. When you clear the grass, the sand blows away and creates deep ravines called "blow outs." The blow outs fill with water because the water table of the Ogallala aquifer (our drinking and irrigation water supply) is just below the surface. It was a mess, and the entire state was furious. The part that makes it even worse--they put people and ranches through that, and we fought back and got the route changed to a safer location--they're working now to sort out a new route along the eastern edge of the state. The entire thing could have been avoided if Trans Canada would have listened to the concerns of the state three years ago, when the Sand Hills route was first proposed. We had to FORCE them to change the route, and now they're complaining that they have to start over. Too bad.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:53 AM
 
50,484 posts, read 26,667,876 times
Reputation: 15770
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
I'm a native Nebraskan. I'm not opposed to the line in theory, especially now that they're moving it out of the sand hills, but Trans Canada was way out of bounds in the way they handled this. They told land owners here that they had 30 days to sell their land, or they'd take it--all without the permit even being approved. Many people refused to be bullied--why would you sell your land to a company when you don't even know if the project is going to be approved? THEN, when they couldn't purchase the land on the time line they wanted, Trans Canada went in and started clearing away prairie grass on PRIVATE LAND--they just showed up on ranches and started mowing even if the rancher had refused to sell. Normally mowing grass wouldn't be a big deal, but the Sand Hills are literally deep hills of sand covered with grass that holds it in place. When you clear the grass, the sand blows away and creates deep ravines called "blow outs." The blow outs fill with water because the water table of the Ogallala aquifer (our drinking and irrigation water supply) is just below the surface. It was a mess, and the entire state was furious. The part that makes it even worse--they put people and ranches through that, and we fought back and got the route changed to a safer location--they're working now to sort out a new route along the eastern edge of the state. The entire thing could have been avoided if Trans Canada would have listened to the concerns of the state three years ago, when the Sand Hills route was first proposed. We had to FORCE them to change the route, and now they're complaining that they have to start over. Too bad.
Amazing how so many people gloss over the story you told here when that's the REAL issue. A foreign company attempted to lay the arm on American citizens, and normally, folks would be outraged at such a thing.

But for some reason, no one seems to care. Why? I don't know. They went nuts at the thought of our ports being leased to a company based in Dubai some years ago, and they were willing to pay for the privilege....not strongarm it. But a Canadian company can strongarm Americans, and these same people just yawn at the thought.

Amazing.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:54 PM
 
18,262 posts, read 10,360,166 times
Reputation: 13313
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Amazing how so many people gloss over the story you told here when that's the REAL issue. A foreign company attempted to lay the arm on American citizens, and normally, folks would be outraged at such a thing.

But for some reason, no one seems to care. Why? I don't know. They went nuts at the thought of our ports being leased to a company based in Dubai some years ago, and they were willing to pay for the privilege....not strongarm it. But a Canadian company can strongarm Americans, and these same people just yawn at the thought.

Amazing.

It's not always Canadians doing the bullying however, so let's not go there.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:41 PM
 
16,017 posts, read 19,661,658 times
Reputation: 26195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
I'm a native Nebraskan. I'm not opposed to the line in theory, especially now that they're moving it out of the sand hills, but Trans Canada was way out of bounds in the way they handled this. They told land owners here that they had 30 days to sell their land, or they'd take it--all without the permit even being approved. Many people refused to be bullied--why would you sell your land to a company when you don't even know if the project is going to be approved? THEN, when they couldn't purchase the land on the time line they wanted, Trans Canada went in and started clearing away prairie grass on PRIVATE LAND--they just showed up on ranches and started mowing even if the rancher had refused to sell. Normally mowing grass wouldn't be a big deal, but the Sand Hills are literally deep hills of sand covered with grass that holds it in place. When you clear the grass, the sand blows away and creates deep ravines called "blow outs." The blow outs fill with water because the water table of the Ogallala aquifer (our drinking and irrigation water supply) is just below the surface. It was a mess, and the entire state was furious. The part that makes it even worse--they put people and ranches through that, and we fought back and got the route changed to a safer location--they're working now to sort out a new route along the eastern edge of the state. The entire thing could have been avoided if Trans Canada would have listened to the concerns of the state three years ago, when the Sand Hills route was first proposed. We had to FORCE them to change the route, and now they're complaining that they have to start over. Too bad.
Funny, history repeats itself. That destruction, similarly caused the Dust Bowl Days of Oklahoma, when the combines were first introduced. And we all know what happened during that era. I hadn't ever seen such a full, well explained accounting, Thank you. I still don't understand why TransCanada is working on other parts of the pipeline while waiting for the ok next summer, as a couple of folks have said. The audacity...are they pulling these same shenanigans in other states?? As we speak?? This is so wrong.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:22 PM
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
54 posts, read 59,782 times
Reputation: 31
Can someone explain to me why Americans would want this pipeline built?
Thanks.
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