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View Poll Results: What option do you like better?
Building a 1600 mile oil pipeline that goes across the US 15 40.54%
Building a refinery in North Dakota 22 59.46%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-25-2012, 08:25 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,248,776 times
Reputation: 12767

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus10 View Post
I think I read that that particular refinery isn't capable of refining the particular type of crude we are talking about without major retrofitting? Isn't this correct?
You are likely correct. You won't find me arguing against building new refineries or new nuclear generators. The oldest ones are much less safe than newer ones would be. Just wanted to point out to the OP that the newest refinery in the nation was in North Dakota.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:30 AM
 
18,321 posts, read 10,398,747 times
Reputation: 13383
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND View Post
There are bigger issues than jobs related to this pipeline. The oil was to come from Canada, thru the US down to Texas and sold to China. Canada, nor any other country should be given imminent domain in our country. There are plenty of oil/energy related jobs up here in N.D. We can't support the workers here now, and those jobs are not long term, just building phase. Also, you don't think Canada wouldn't have imported Canadian workers??? Read the issues, educate yourself.
Top US refineries-US Energy Information Administration.....Top U.S. Refineries - Energy Information Administration. Energy Rankings

Interesting how you define this issue to countries without considering ownership, shareholder, or other considerations.

You've narrowed your view to "Canada" applying eminent domain when it's NOT Canada but rather the corporation, that is acting through legal means, at the behest of it's board of director's (some of whom are American) and shareholders (many of whom are American) and you don't think the U.S. or it's citizens are represented in there somewhere?

Canada importing Canadian workers? You're kidding right? You are going to even mention that when the other Keystone pipeline's employment and benefits history to your various states economy is there to view.

Regardless; legal visas or permits would almost certainly be applied for in the minimal instances of Canadian workers who would then all be paying taxes via applicable IRS rules while you allow the OTHER border to import workers at YOUR behest who do not.

I guess I'd better apologise on behalf of Canada for not wanting to cut your grass. clean your pools or shovel your **** in quantitative numbers so as to make the minimal legal Canadian employment of this pipeling more acceptable to you. Brother!

Last edited by BruSan; 01-25-2012 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,920,678 times
Reputation: 12178
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus10 View Post
Nebraska had every right to ask for a re-route! Even those of us in the industry think that. I've never once said otherwise, so no one is in denial. This is a political pandering time issue, but we've already discussed this too much here.
We can agree on political pandering, especially evident in your speak from both ends, and returning with a non-answer. The question was, why did Nebraskans oppose it, not whether it was within their rights or not. Would you like to call them dumb and for not getting it? That their concerns are unwarranted?

Quote:
You believe it to be a sham as far as demand... I don't. Any production here does nothing but help us in the long run unless you believe that buying from the middle east or Brazil or China is good for us?
It is more than mere belief when there is evidence of political pandering, of sham. Need proof? Answer this: Why not promote the idea of building a inland refinery instead of pushing the oil all the way to the port, if the idea is to benefit domestically (USA) from it?

As for reducing reliance, I have a better idea: Conservation and Promoting Alternate Energy Sources.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:34 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,248,776 times
Reputation: 12767
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
It has nothing to do with trucks and emissions and everything to do with the ability to have port access. After all, trucking will be involved from the coast to inland anyway. Or if trucking is a problem, may be we ought to reconsider rebuilding the railway network?
Would you re-build the tracks for BNSF so that Warren Buffet can profit even more from Obama's rejection of the Keystone Pipeline?
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,920,678 times
Reputation: 12178
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Would you re-build the tracks for BNSF so that Warren Buffet can profit even more from Obama's rejection of the Keystone Pipeline?
Who is building the pipeline? Who do you expect to build a refinery? Federal government? Seriously?

I'm well aware of your hatred for that billionaire, but he stands where he does, from forward thinking. He knows re-building a railway network is inevitable... but then, I'm actually trying to reason with a "conservative".
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:39 AM
 
Location: N. Ga
3,696 posts, read 3,293,297 times
Reputation: 2058
The biggest problem with this whole argument whether its for or against Keystone (which as it stands right now is a dead issue), or about the oil/gas industry as a whole is that people have an "idea" in their heads. They have read something somewhere, or seen something on TV and it became their ideology about the whole issue. They don't stop to think about the other side. They don't stop to think about the hypocrisy. They really don't know what their fighting against. They are never willing to see anything good about the other side because they've been programmed only to see one side. This whole thread (and the debate about Keystone itself) has proved this to me every day. I enjoy hearing the opposing side from those in the know, but those who are just here to argue for arguments sake are the most vocal....
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Eastern NC
19,533 posts, read 17,784,286 times
Reputation: 17342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoris View Post
The reason is so that the speculators and major oil companies can get the oil into a port city ... SO THEY CAN SELL NORTH AMERICAN OIL ON THE OPEN MARKET. So much for energy independence.
Good post and correct. Our oil and gas prices will remain right where they are at should this pipeline get built. It will do nothing but create a few long term jobs and tax money for the government. Nothing more and when the first Major spill happens, we will say I told you so.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,920,678 times
Reputation: 12178
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus10 View Post
The biggest problem with this whole argument whether its for or against Keystone (which as it stands right now is a dead issue), or about the oil/gas industry as a whole is that people have an "idea" in their heads. They have read something somewhere, or seen something on TV and it became their ideology about the whole issue. They don't stop to think about the other side. They don't stop to think about the hypocrisy. They really don't know what their fighting against. They are never willing to see anything good about the other side because they've been programmed only to see one side. This whole thread (and the debate about Keystone itself) has proved this to me every day. I enjoy hearing the opposing side from those in the know, but those who are just here to argue for arguments sake are the most vocal....
Let us start with you... what good do you see about the other side on this subject, where they're right?
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:44 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,248,776 times
Reputation: 12767
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Who is building the pipeline? Who do you expect to build a refinery? Federal government? Seriously?

I'm well aware of your hatred for that billionaire, but he stands where he does, from forward thinking. He knows re-building a railway network is inevitable... but then, I'm actually trying to reason with a "conservative".
It was you who used the word "we" in your post, thus indicating taxpayers. I have no hatred of Mr. Buffett, only of his political ideology and duplicity. Save your personal attacks.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:48 AM
 
Location: N. Ga
3,696 posts, read 3,293,297 times
Reputation: 2058
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
We can agree on political pandering, especially evident in your speak from both ends, and returning with a non-answer. The question was, why did Nebraskans oppose it, not whether it was within their rights or not. Would you like to call them dumb and for not getting it? That their concerns are unwarranted?


It is more than mere belief when there is evidence of political pandering, of sham. Need proof? Answer this: Why not promote the idea of building a inland refinery instead of pushing the oil all the way to the port, if the idea is to benefit domestically (USA) from it?

As for reducing reliance, I have a better idea: Conservation and Promoting Alternate Energy Sources.
Re Nebraska. Nebraska opposed it over the aquifir. It was a legitimate concern. While I didn't share the concern, knowing about pipeline construction as I do. I never called them dumb. And... they got what they wanted. A re-route. It was the best solution for all involved. So... therefore... it is now a NON-ISSUE. If you had been following the time line all along you would know this. My questioning in all this is the time-line and the information being passed along by not only NE's elected officials, but our own federal government. They all are using this as a political bargaining chip. Every last one of them. Right and Left. And those of us who have been following this drama for over 3 years now knows this.

Re: Promoting and conserving is a good thing. But... do you still drive a car? Do you heat your home? And don't tell me yes, but electric. A big part of electric production is generated from... gasp... natural gas.. delivered in part by pipelines to the generating station. And you can thank my family for that. You willing to go saddle up Mr. Ed to get to work? Willing to go cut and stack cords of wood for your heat? Nah... I didn't think so. Willing to pay 10.00 per gallon at the pump? See.. it's not quite so black and white is it?
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