Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-26-2012, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,538,911 times
Reputation: 24780

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post
I'm a teacher and I largely agree with you. It's borderline insane to "pretend" everyone is going or even needs to go to college.

I call today's obsession with children being blessed with unlimited potential, "diaper sniffing."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-26-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy View Post
The problem is that we as a society don't value public education, we value private education. If you don't feel that providing affordable public education to our society is imporant, then you will have a horrible educational system. Fault the government all you want, but in the end they perform up to the standard society holds them accountable to. Imagine if our military performed as poorly as our public schools, we the public would not tolerate it. Public schools suck because the majority of the public doesn't care
That's because of the changes. The ones who hold academic value in regard pulled their kids from public school.

Everyone cannot be a winner and until the Dept of Education realizes that you will see an increase of private schools and charter schools.
I applaud those parents for caring enough about their kids education to do what they can to insure their kids can read and write.

Teachers and parents alike hate NCLB and what it has done.
That is "what society wants" ? No, that is what some elected politicians want.

Obama is now coming out with a new program..Race to the Top.
Is that what Americans want for their kids ? No one asked them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 08:51 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,733,266 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Saw this:

Now obviously you wont get this as a fresh out of HS kid at 18 but this is what we need to aim for. It also shows the huge skills gap we have as a nation if they have to have a $2500 sign on bonus.

Find Jobs - $2500 SIGN ON BONUS - CNC Machinist Jobs in Houston, Texas - FMC Technologies

HS education. $2500 sign on. clean factory. Min pay $20 an hour.
crazy benefits (I never had bennies like this)
>•Benefits: Medical, Dental, and Vision Benefits•401(k): FMC offers a competitive 401(k) plan with generous matching contributions for non-union full-time and part-time employees working at least 20 hours per week. If you choose to participate in the 401(k), FMC will match your contributions dollar for dollar, up to the first 5% of your eligible pay (up to IRS limits). For those eligible non-union employees hired or rehired on or after January 2, 2010, FMC also provides a company contribution of 4% of eligible pay-whether you participate in the plan or not.•Paid Time Off (PTO): You earn PTO based on your years of service with FMC. These days can be used for any reason-vacation, personal time, family illness, occasional sick days, etc. •Extras: The FMC EXTRAS Program is a voluntary benefits and discount program. This includes home and auto insurance, pet insurance, home electronics, personal computers, wireless phones, mortgage program, automotive discounts, deals on travel and entertainment, and much more.•Facility: Clean environment with high safety standards. Free parking with secured access. On-site cafeteria and dining facility.

We need a much more hands on practical education for hour HS thru 22 year olds. THIS is what we need to be aiming our non college bound kids for. We need less of the one size fits all pump them out without true skills education. Other things like electrician, plumbing, millwright, etc. Truck driver and welder for those with lesser math skills. etc.
You're right. We need reform of our education system. But the change we need is more profound than the one you advocate. Our schools will not improve until two things happen. First, parents need to have skin in the game. Where public education is truly free, that is, the parents pay nothing towards the cost of educating their children either in direct tuition or property taxes, there is not the parental involvement and keen interest in seeing that the kids have a top-notch education. That kind of detachment is at the bottom of failing schools in inner cities. If the parents don't care why should the teachers?

A close corollary to the first issue is school choice. Unless and until there is real competition in education our schools will go the way of any monopoly: take it or leave it. Parents should have the ability to "leave it" (the government school monopoly) if the public schools are not delivering a satisfactory product. That means vouchers paid directly to the school of the parents' choice. And I would ensure that the vouchers do not cover the full cost of tuition. The parents should have to pay something toward the cost of educating their children. They should have skin in the game.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:15 AM
 
13,650 posts, read 20,777,671 times
Reputation: 7651
A friend of mine chose trade school over college. Today he works for the local transit system. Repairs subway cars. Makes good money.

He did not need some massive paradigm shift to make his own choice between a university education and a technical one.

One of my neighbors is a plumber. Damn good one. He has an apprentice he trains according to union rules. Neither of them went to college.

I guess I am struggling to understand the issue here. If too many ill prepared people are attending college, then the colleges should not admit them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:28 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,005 posts, read 12,592,213 times
Reputation: 8925
Jim. You mean make poor parents pay directly for their childrens education? Ill hafta disagree there. You will just guarantee a 99% failure rate rather than 75%. Yes I know it is inefficient but I actually care about that 24%.

Choice. In principle good but must be handled very carefully to not restrict the supply end.

I live in NJ. We have public school choice. My kids would stay in the current school tho. GREAT school. We spend 9K a student (yes i know the righties hate that) vs. 22K in Newark. Thank you Abbots. sigh. ack drifting sorry.

The point is. We need a much more formalized path to the trades and stop trying to teach Johnny IQ90what the capital of Belize is. If you start the process of teaching Johnny how to be a truck driver at least he will be on his way to a 35-40K job. Not spectacular, but not starving either. Jor Jimmy IQ 105.. an electrician will rarely starve. There is always someone willing to slip you $70 to just install that dimmer switch, outlet etc. Jimmy IQ120 with a few business courses the electrician will probably have his own truck and tools and made a VERY decent living.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,013,481 times
Reputation: 62204
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That is what the system is today because that is what the government wants. There will always be a need for vocational education yet the government thinks everyone should go to college and get a high paying white collar job in a cushy office.

Who did they think would take over the jobs of the plumbers, electricians, car mechanics ?

Now you have everyone on an academic track whether they have the skills or not. If they don't they just drop out at 17 or slide by with that HS diploma and end up in retail/fast food because of lack of skills.

We are reaping what we sowed.

We used to have a good education system with both academic/vocational tracks in HS and it worked.
Plumbers, electricians, brick layers and car mechanics jobs don't go overseas, either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Plumbers, electricians, brick layers and car mechanics jobs don't go overseas, either.
Ain't that the truth. Any job where you have to physically touch it won't be offshored.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:45 AM
 
13,650 posts, read 20,777,671 times
Reputation: 7651
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Ain't that the truth. Any job where you have to physically touch it won't be offshored.
Except that we insource illegals to do them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Except that we insource illegals to do them.
The key word is skilled. Don't see many illegal plumbers or electricians or car mechanics (not oil changers but real mechanics).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:59 AM
 
13,650 posts, read 20,777,671 times
Reputation: 7651
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The key word is skilled. Don't see many illegal plumbers or electricians or car mechanics (not oil changers but real mechanics).
I suspect that I see plenty. However, I do not demand proof of citizenship from those performing services as the local constabulary would send me to the gallows for hate speech or profiling. My state is very liberal and my county is a sanctuary county. How on Earth could there not be?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:53 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top