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Old 02-19-2012, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,202 posts, read 18,270,439 times
Reputation: 8032

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Where is your proof that contrails can form above -40C?

Where is your proof that contrails can stay visible thousands of miles, never dissipate, spread and form a cloud like appearance?
THIS IS BASIC STUFF, DON!

Re the temp - google it! Whether or not a contrail can form is a function of temperature AND HUMIDITY.

Let me google that for you

Re the rest - (relatively) simple and very well understood science, Don. You don't have to believe us. Call your local meteorologist. Visit your local college campus and talk to any professors that deal with the physical sciences - try and find the meteorology professor. Talk to aircraft engineers.

DON'T "GOOGLE IT." TALK TO PEOPLE. Your google fu seems constrained to searches limited to those including the term "chemtrail." I have no hope for you when it comes to researching online - get out into the real world, and talk to real people with real backgrounds in real science. I guarantee that you'll get all the answers you need, and none of the answers you actually want to hear.

 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:34 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,431,677 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Give me your address and I need a full background check performed and polygraph. You must be a US citizen with proof.
You must first furnish me with proof that you have the resources required to perform a full background check on me, furnish me with the persons name and the type of equipment that will be used on the polygraph test. How come you never mentioned that only verified American citizens can participate in a chemical spraying operation?

As usual, you got caught in another one of your ludicrous statements and come up with BS to cover your azz...

Quote:
Operation Cloverleaf is operated out of Wright-Patterson AFB but they have facilities in other locations, example Arizona.
Oh boy! Operation Cloverleaf, I really don't want to hear about a lawn and leaf company....

OPERATION Cloverleaf
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,202 posts, read 18,270,439 times
Reputation: 8032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
I could drag you onto a aerosol spraying aircraft for a joy ride
You could?! Then what have we been arguing about? Let's go! Tell me what airport to be at and when! I'm there!!!
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,202 posts, read 18,270,439 times
Reputation: 8032
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
New gen commercial craft cruise at altitudes up to 41000 ft, some corporate craft have even hgiher ceilings.
Not according to GuyNTexas. He stated unequivocally that those altitudes are reserved for commercial/military traffic, and that they're off limits to "civil" traffic. And we all know, he's the smartest guy in the room, all the time, so I'm sorry to say that you simply must be wrong.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,431,677 times
Reputation: 7641
I have been reading where foreign countries are playing on the stupidity and gullibility of Americans hoping they will get these Americans to force the American government to ground all flights within American borders.

Everybody knows this is true. Nobody can tell me I am wrong, I have seen it with my own two eyes.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:43 PM
 
8,341 posts, read 9,810,151 times
Reputation: 10652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Lapse rate

Although the actual atmospheric lapse rate varies, under normal atmospheric conditions the average atmospheric lapse rate results in a temperature decrease of 3.5F (1.94C) per 1,000 feet (304 m) of altitude.
Yes, I know all about the lapse rates having learned them in multiple meteorology courses. It's what I used in my example you quoted. Although as I pointed out, it varies with the moisture content of a particular air parcel. Moisture content normally isn't uniform across altitudes either, and even if it's a low rh at the surface, it may not be so higher. It's just a "ballpark" tool used to allow standardization.

Also, I have seen contrail formation in temps as low as -28c. We were several miles in trail of an aircraft at our altitude, and it was leaving a contrail, although not a strong peristant one, with our static outside air temp showing -28C. I assume it was a high relative humidity environ at that time.

Last edited by 11thHour; 02-19-2012 at 05:51 PM..
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:48 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,959,016 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
THIS IS BASIC STUFF, DON!

Re the temp - google it! Whether or not a contrail can form is a function of temperature AND HUMIDITY.

Let me google that for you

Re the rest - (relatively) simple and very well understood science, Don. You don't have to believe us. Call your local meteorologist. Visit your local college campus and talk to any professors that deal with the physical sciences - try and find the meteorology professor. Talk to aircraft engineers.

DON'T "GOOGLE IT." TALK TO PEOPLE. Your google fu seems constrained to searches limited to those including the term "chemtrail." I have no hope for you when it comes to researching online - get out into the real world, and talk to real people with real backgrounds in real science. I guarantee that you'll get all the answers you need, and none of the answers you actually want to hear.
Ok, give me a Las Vegas air temperature you feel conformable with when it would be just too warm at 30,000 for contrails to form. You don't like 70F so I will give you another 10 degrees and say 80F. How about another 10 degrees and say 90F. Hell, I feel generous today I will give you 100F ground air temp which is 30F above what I calculated. By my calculations the air temperature at 100F or 37.78C would work out to -22.22C at 30,000 feet ... almost 20C above the -40C that's required for contrails to form.

So, have you ever see contrails when the air temp is above 100F in Vegas?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:52 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,959,016 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
Yes, I know all about the lapse rates having learned them in multiple meteorology courses. It's what I used in my example you quoted. Although as I pointed out, it varies with the moisture content of a particular air parcel. Moisture content normally isn't uniform across altitudes either, and even if it's a low rh at the surface, it may not be so higher. It's just a "ballpark" tool used to allow standardization.

Also, I have seen contrail formation in temps as low as -28c. We were several miles in trail of an aircraft at our altitude, and it was leaving a contrail, although not a strong peristant one, with our static outside air temp showing -28C. I assume it was a hgih relative humidity and very stable air.
Ok, you seem to be knowledgeable in this. Can you answer the question I just asked Swagger? He lives in Vegas where it gets well above 100F in the summer but they still see contrails ... or chemtrails that stretch the sky's and form clouds. Do you not think that there should be a point where it is just too warm for contrails to form? What would that be? Do you think the people in Vegas should not see contrails when the temp gets to 100F?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:58 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,431,677 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Ok, you seem to be knowledgeable in this. Can you answer the question I just asked Swagger? He lives in Vegas where it gets well above 100F in the summer but they still see contrails ... or chemtrails that stretch the sky's and form clouds. Do you not think that there should be a point where it is just too warm for contrails to form? What would that be? Do you think the people in Vegas should not see contrails when the temp gets to 100F?
Seems you demand others answer your questions when in over 700 posts you have refused to answer theirs, NOT ONCE...

And you expect people to respect you?

Sooo, how about that flight? Or was it just more BS from you?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,202 posts, read 18,270,439 times
Reputation: 8032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Give me your address and I need a full background check performed and polygraph. You must be a US citizen with proof.
If you can prove that you can deliver on your promise, I'll GLADLY let you run a check on me (why not? the states of Nevada, Utah and Florida are all currently already in the process of it, including fingerprinting), and I'll show you my passport (proof of citizenship) as we're boarding the plane.
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