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Old 02-21-2012, 01:23 AM
 
9,094 posts, read 5,612,896 times
Reputation: 3840

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Won't get into that, as it's off-topic, but I agree that there are activities taking place that qualify under the term "geo-engineering." I don't think that anybody's disagreeing with that. Since everyone is in agreement on that point, and also because it's off-topic, can you please stop talking about it? If you want to start a discussion about geo-engineering in general, the proper thing to do would be to start a new thread, instead of continuing to try and hijack this one.
Quit being such a blatant fraud ... off topic? NO ... inconvenient to your position? Yes, which is why you don't want to discuss it.

The topic is Contrails or Chemtrails ..... and your position is to insist the Chemtrails don't exist. Yet, clearly within the area of "Geo-engineering" the introduction of aerosol chemicals (CHEMTRAILS) are a part of those geo-engineering technologies, and the evidence is indisputable, and the supporting documentation and discussions have been provided.

So, that would tend to dismiss your claim that Chemtrails don't exist as totally wrong. So this absolutely SMACK DAB ON TOPIC.

And the geo-engineering angle is simply one element of this .. and probably just a false pretext or excuse to explain to the many participants why they should participate and keep their mouths shut. Gotta save mother earth from that dreadful global warming ... and we've got to keep it secret that we're doing it, otherwise the dummy public would not allow us to continue, because of the toxicity of the compounds we're spraying into the air. But we've got to do it for their own good .... because the public just doesn't understand what is at stake, or why there is no choice. Sure, some of the public might have allergic reactions, but it's a small price to pay for saving the planet, right? Right!

That works a lot better than telling them that it is a softkill program designed to reduce populations by making them sick and sterile. Some people might have a problem with that.

 
Old 02-21-2012, 02:15 AM
 
9,094 posts, read 5,612,896 times
Reputation: 3840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill View Post
I've lived near 2 different AFB's and contrails like that were a daily occurrence. Especially when I lived up near Minot, ND.

In other words, those appear to be concentrated contrails near an AFB, and not commercial in origin at all.
Yet there are thousands upon thousands of photographs of this very same situation occurring all over the country and around the world.

And I grew up in the Washington DC Metro area ... lived less than 15 miles from Andrews AFB, and no such thing did I witness EVER in the 15 years I worked in downtown Washington DC, driving past Andrews every day.

Of course I saw contrails ... but never did I ever see them paint the sky from horizon to horizon, literally turning a clear blue sky into a blanket of gray.

But ... now, I see it frequently occur here in downtown Austin Texas, with no AFB anywhere close to this location.
 
Old 02-21-2012, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities, MN
780 posts, read 459,822 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Yet there are thousands upon thousands of photographs of this very same situation occurring all over the country and around the world.

And I grew up in the Washington DC Metro area ... lived less than 15 miles from Andrews AFB, and no such thing did I witness EVER in the 15 years I worked in downtown Washington DC, driving past Andrews every day.

Of course I saw contrails ... but never did I ever see them paint the sky from horizon to horizon, literally turning a clear blue sky into a blanket of gray.

But ... now, I see it frequently occur here in downtown Austin Texas, with no AFB anywhere close to this location.
Did you ever live near an AB?
 
Old 02-21-2012, 02:24 AM
 
8,339 posts, read 9,801,373 times
Reputation: 10647
Again, aircraft can, and do, hold at cruising altitudes. Where are you getting that they only hold at lower approach altitudes? Also, aircraft can be 'stacked' in holding patterns, ie multiple aircraft holding over the same fix or waypoint at different altitudes, and with different winds at different altitudes, those holding pattern contrails will drift downwind differently.

I'll give a personal example: One time (out of many similar instances) we were over 200 miles away from our destination, IAH, and the airport suddenly got clobbered with strong thunderstorms, during which ATC ceased all approach clearances. This causes all inbound traffic to have to hold or divert. Generally, they hold traffic closest to the destination first. As that airspace fills, they have to start holding traffic further and further away. So here we are, over the middle of nowhere in western Texas, in perfectly clear weather, and had to enter a hold while we either waited for the storms to pass, or if they stalled and fuel then became an issue, divert. There were 3 planes above us, 1 below, all holding over the same fix at different flight levels. We were at FL310. All of use were leaving contrails, and it was a fascinating sight to see a stack of drifting contrails, including our own. As time passed, and more traffic arrived into the area, ATC issued similar holding instructions utilizing other fixes for those aircraft. From the ground, one would have seen many different oval contrails from over a dozen aircraft, across a large portion of the sky, all drifting and overlapping, using several different waypoints over that geographical area. It would have been quite the sight. And they were having to do this for traffic inbound from all directions. So that was our experience to the west. Those arriving from the east had to the same, from the north the same, and so on, unless that particular arrival route was not busy at that time. Even then, after the weather clears, some planes will have to remain in the hold for some time as ATC has to meter the traffic out of the holds to provide spacing.

Also, if an aircraft is in a hold without stacked traffic, they can descend while in the hold. From the ground this would look unusual due to the different drifting speeds of the contrail as they descended through different winds, until they entered air too warm for contrails. This stuff happens more then people realize.

Also, the military refueling tankers will often utilize holding patterns while flying in the military operations areas/restricted areas during training exercises. They 'loiter' in these patterns to remain in the confines of the operations areas while waiting for and performing refueling. I80 in the west desert of Utah cuts a corridor through a large restricted airspace area. While driving that, one can sometimes see numerous holding pattern contrails in the distance from the refuelers during exercises . Of course, some will falsely claim that they are just spraying chemtrail ovals.

We need an enroute controller in here. They could add valuable insight into these discussions.
 
Old 02-21-2012, 04:47 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,954,405 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
^^^I've seen pure BS posted but this one? It is so far head and shoulders above all the others.

I have never witnessed such a display of technobabble that winds up saying absolutely nothing.

A perfect deflection post if I ever saw one, and the elitist tone used, WOW Now, this wouldn't be so problematic for you if you just made the wise decision to consider the likelihood that there are things in this world that you might not be aware of, rather than automatically dismissing everything that falls outside your currently established and limited point of reference and awareness.

How ironic ... everything you wrote applies to yourself ... are you looking in a mirror?
 
Old 02-21-2012, 04:51 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,954,405 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill View Post
Did you ever live near an AB?
I have lived near and on many. You see exhaust trails from some of the older aircraft, like a B52 or F4 but you don't see contrails like that.
 
Old 02-21-2012, 04:55 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,954,405 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
Again, aircraft can, and do, hold at cruising altitudes. Where are you getting that they only hold at lower approach altitudes? Also, aircraft can be 'stacked' in holding patterns, ie multiple aircraft holding over the same fix or waypoint at different altitudes, and with different winds at different altitudes, those holding pattern contrails will drift downwind differently.

I'll give a personal example: One time (out of many similar instances) we were over 200 miles away from our destination, IAH, and the airport suddenly got clobbered with strong thunderstorms, during which ATC ceased all approach clearances. This causes all inbound traffic to have to hold or divert. Generally, they hold traffic closest to the destination first. As that airspace fills, they have to start holding traffic further and further away. So here we are, over the middle of nowhere in western Texas, in perfectly clear weather, and had to enter a hold while we either waited for the storms to pass, or if they stalled and fuel then became an issue, divert. There were 3 planes above us, 1 below, all holding over the same fix at different flight levels. We were at FL310. All of use were leaving contrails, and it was a fascinating sight to see a stack of drifting contrails, including our own. As time passed, and more traffic arrived into the area, ATC issued similar holding instructions utilizing other fixes for those aircraft. From the ground, one would have seen many different oval contrails from over a dozen aircraft, across a large portion of the sky, all drifting and overlapping, using several different waypoints over that geographical area. It would have been quite the sight. And they were having to do this for traffic inbound from all directions. So that was our experience to the west. Those arriving from the east had to the same, from the north the same, and so on, unless that particular arrival route was not busy at that time. Even then, after the weather clears, some planes will have to remain in the hold for some time as ATC has to meter the traffic out of the holds to provide spacing.

Also, if an aircraft is in a hold without stacked traffic, they can descend while in the hold. From the ground this would look unusual due to the different drifting speeds of the contrail as they descended through different winds, until they entered air too warm for contrails. This stuff happens more then people realize.

Also, the military refueling tankers will often utilize holding patterns while flying in the military operations areas/restricted areas during training exercises. They 'loiter' in these patterns to remain in the confines of the operations areas while waiting for and performing refueling. I80 in the west desert of Utah cuts a corridor through a large restricted airspace area. While driving that, one can sometimes see numerous holding pattern contrails in the distance from the refuelers during exercises . Of course, some will falsely claim that they are just spraying chemtrail ovals.

We need an enroute controller in here. They could add valuable insight into these discussions.
We have video and I have see with my own eyes ... these aircraft turning on and off these despensers. I have even see an aircraft laying down a trail and then see a second aircraft catch up to the first and starts spraying at the same time and very close to the first jet ... then the first jet cuts off the chemtrail and turns away while the second jet continues the trail. Obviously the first jet was running dry and had to stop spraying which is why the second jet replaced the first jet.
 
Old 02-21-2012, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities, MN
780 posts, read 459,822 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
I have lived near and on many. You see exhaust trails from some of the older aircraft, like a B52 or F4 but you don't see contrails like that.
I don't believe that you ever did, or you wouldn't be here talking smack.
 
Old 02-21-2012, 05:58 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,954,405 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill View Post
I don't believe that you ever did, or you wouldn't be here talking smack.
I'm an USAF vet.
Have you served your country?
 
Old 02-21-2012, 09:49 AM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,331 posts, read 14,048,526 times
Reputation: 6506
they are contrails people
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