Contrails or Chemtrails? (conspiracy, Obama, money, government)

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Don9

Contrail
Condensation from engine exhaust
......and only if the temperature there is below −40 °C (−40 °F)[/b].

Cirrus Clouds
Cirrus clouds are the highest in elevation, which form above 20,000 feet. .... This can only happen when the temperatures reach below –38 degrees Celsius. [/b] These high-level clouds are white, thin, feathery, and wispy in appearance. Cirrus clouds often mark the start of a warm front, which is an indication of approaching bad weather. They are the fastest moving in the atmosphere because the wind current is very strong that high up.

Lapse rate
As an average, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) defines an international standard atmosphere (ISA) with a temperature lapse rate of 6.49 K(°C)/1,000 m (3.56 °F or 1.98 K(°C)/1,000 Ft) from sea level to 11 km (36,090 ft).

did you even READ what you wrote (or copied from somewhere)

1. 40c is NOT the same as 40F
2. you theory is DISPROVEN with the second para.....

Cirrus clouds are the highest in elevation, which form above 20,000 feet. .... This can only happen when the temperatures reach below –38 degrees Celsius.

right there it SHOWS in absolute proof that the contrails (needing -30c) are the same as clouds...and your statement of "contrails cant form when the gound temp is 115'f"""is a lie

[Trackwatch]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

did you even READ what you wrote (or copied from somewhere)

1. 40c is NOT the same as 40F

-40C = -40F that part is correct.

[plwhit]

Originally Posted by Just a Bill

Wikipedia is sometimes wrong, but, on the whole, it's been considered as factual as Encyclopedia Britannica.

After all, no human is devoid of bias, which includes both Wiki and EB. EB relies on "noted scholars" yet they are as fallible as the rest of us.

I actually prefer Wikipedia, as it is a "living" encyclopedia; meaning that errors can be retracted immediately upon discovery.

Only if the powers-that-be on Wikipedia agree that the errors are errors. Mnay times they do not...

[swagger]

The "Enter" key. Learn it. Love it. Use it.

Originally Posted by Don9

Typical, can't argue the message so attack the messenger ... you must be a liberal!

I did "attack" the message, Don. Now you're turning that very imaginative mind of yours inward, seeing "attacks" against you that don't exist. Wow.

As for me being a liberal... Once again, you demonstrate your extraordinary inability to pay attention, or to do even the most basic research.

Originally Posted by Don9

Yes, average. Do you know what average means? Did you see my calculations where it can't be warmer than 70°F on the ground for contrails or cirrus clouds to exist. The 70°F temp had margin. But were not talking 70°F in Vegas, were talking at least 30°F+ warmer. That 30°F+ of margin removes all doubt that contrails and cirrus clouds can't exist at 30,000 feet ... but yet you still see them. I showed video from August 12, 2011 when the low was 79°F (before daybreak) and the high 104°F ... and guess what ... cirrus clouds/contrails/chemtrails ... what ever you want to call it.

Give it up, Don. You know nothing of atmospheric science. You go digging and find one formula for estimation that you think helps your case, and you stop digging. As far as you're concerned, it's "case closed."

The atmosphere, its climate and weather in general are much more complicated than that, Don. If they were that simple, there wouldn't be an entire scientific discipline devoted to it. We wouldn't have an ongoing debate about whether humans are causing a significant increase in the global temperature, weather predictions would always be dead-on accurate, etc.

The really sad thing is that we have an actual meteorologist posting in the thread - a first for all the chemtrail threads I've been involved in - and you can't or won't believe that they know more about the atmosphere than you. You spout two things (-40° & the x°/1k' rule), over and over, both of which are generalizations, not hard and fast rules, and you think you understand how the atmosphere works better than someone who's got a bachelor's degree in exactly the discipline we're discussing. It's like watching a train wreck, but it's logic and reason that's being twisted beyond recognition, not steel...

Originally Posted by Don9

Did you read the comments from your fellow Las Vegas residence on the three videos? They were all complaining about the constant chemtrail spraying.

Oh, you only suggested reading the comments on the one video, so that's what I did. I didn't look at the others. On the one you directed us to, there was only one comment, and it was pretty useless.

Originally Posted by Don9

And when I ask you about the chemtrails/contrails in the summer, you give a vague answer like you don't really know if you have seen them ... I call BS!!!

Do you seriously think that I pay such close attention to how often we have persistent contrails that I'd remember their frequency six months after the fact?

Seriously?

Dude. Snap into reality. Really. I've already told you that the chemtrail conspiracy theory doesn't consume me the way it does you, and that I use this forum primarily as a form of entertainment. If you really think that I'm going to remember how often I see persistent contrails in the summer, when we're half a year past it, you're sorely mistaken.

Originally Posted by Don9

I don't know who you think you are protecting with this charade of claiming you don't see contrails in the desert heat.

I never said that... Learn to read, Don, and don't make a habit of inferring your own answers from what other people write.

I said that the one characteristic, besides the obvious heat, that I remember as being fairly constant during the summer is how bright it is. That's it. Stop making things up.

Originally Posted by Don9

I can tell from your bogus answers that you know exactly whats going on and you obviously condone it.

*MY* bogus answers? Holy crap...

Do you really believe the things you write? I'm starting to wonder again if all this has just been a joke on your part to yank our chains for your own entertainment. Seriously - nobody could be as far gone as you seem. I'm one of the conspirators now? Wow... Can you tell me where to pick up my check? After 10+ years, they must owe me a small fortune...

Originally Posted by Don9

Its one thing if you are alone in Vegas and accept the risk but if you have family, especial young children, your turning a blind eye to to people who don't care about you or your family ... more and more data is coming out that the fall-out from this spraying is a threat to your and there health.

Contrails are made of ice, and ice is made of water. Water is essential to survival, so I'm really not that worried, for myself or anyone else. Thanks for your concern, though!

[swagger]

Originally Posted by Don9

Attack the messenger ... typical

I can provide the same data from many other credible sources. Why don't you provide data that counterpoints what I wrote, show me data that shows I'm wrong...

Um, Don... His post was actually independent of our conversation.. he was just commenting on my mention of citing Wikipedia for research purposes, and saying that it isn't usually all that unreliable... if anything, his post supported your argument.

[swagger]

Originally Posted by Don9

You would need more data on the exact type of aerosol dispensed, apparatus and methods to answer that question.

No, you wouldn't.

It's very simple, Don. The more concentrated a solution is, the easier it's going to be to see.

What does a drop of red food coloring look like? It's so dark that it's almost black, right? If you dilute that drop in a glass of water, the water will turn red. If you dump that glass of red water into a full five gallon bucket, the water will turn pink. If you dump that bucket into a swimming pool, there won't be enough dye to notice at all.

The "spray" would be the thickest as it leaves the dispersion device. It would be very dense, and very obvious. It wouldn't be invisible for a short distance, and then suddenly and magically become visible.

So I ask again, why can't the "spray" be seen immediately upon release?

[Don9]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

did you even READ what you wrote (or copied from somewhere)

1. 40c is NOT the same as 40F
2. you theory is DISPROVEN with the second para.....

right there it SHOWS in absolute proof that the contrails (needing -30c) are the same as clouds...and your statement of "contrails cant form when the gound temp is 115'f"""is a lie

Actually -40C is equal to -40F

And yes, I know the difference

You obviously dont

[plwhit]

Originally Posted by Don9

Actually -40C is equal to -40F

Thank you for regurgitating what Trackwatch has already posted.

Since you seem to be America's most knowledgeable person on chemtrails is it true Russian military aircraft are spraying binary nerve agents and when the time is right the other agent will be released, they will combine and the American population poisoned?

[Don9]

Originally Posted by swagger

The "Enter" key. Learn it. Love it. Use it.


I did "attack" the message, Don. Now you're turning that very imaginative mind of yours inward, seeing "attacks" against you that don't exist. Wow.

As for me being a liberal... Once again, you demonstrate your extraordinary inability to pay attention, or to do even the most basic research.





Give it up, Don. You know nothing of atmospheric science. You go digging and find one formula for estimation that you think helps your case, and you stop digging. As far as you're concerned, it's "case closed."

The atmosphere, its climate and weather in general are much more complicated than that, Don. If they were that simple, there wouldn't be an entire scientific discipline devoted to it. We wouldn't have an ongoing debate about whether humans are causing a significant increase in the global temperature, weather predictions would always be dead-on accurate, etc.

The really sad thing is that we have an actual meteorologist posting in the thread - a first for all the chemtrail threads I've been involved in - and you can't or won't believe that they know more about the atmosphere than you. You spout two things (-40° & the x°/1k' rule), over and over, both of which are generalizations, not hard and fast rules, and you think you understand how the atmosphere works better than someone who's got a bachelor's degree in exactly the discipline we're discussing. It's like watching a train wreck, but it's logic and reason that's being twisted beyond recognition, not steel...


Oh, you only suggested reading the comments on the one video, so that's what I did. I didn't look at the others. On the one you directed us to, there was only one comment, and it was pretty useless.


Do you seriously think that I pay such close attention to how often we have persistent contrails that I'd remember their frequency six months after the fact?

Seriously?

Dude. Snap into reality. Really. I've already told you that the chemtrail conspiracy theory doesn't consume me the way it does you, and that I use this forum primarily as a form of entertainment. If you really think that I'm going to remember how often I see persistent contrails in the summer, when we're half a year past it, you're sorely mistaken.


I never said that... Learn to read, Don, and don't make a habit of inferring your own answers from what other people write.

I said that the one characteristic, besides the obvious heat, that I remember as being fairly constant during the summer is how bright it is. That's it. Stop making things up.


*MY* bogus answers? Holy crap...

Do you really believe the things you write? I'm starting to wonder again if all this has just been a joke on your part to yank our chains for your own entertainment. Seriously - nobody could be as far gone as you seem. I'm one of the conspirators now? Wow... Can you tell me where to pick up my check? After 10+ years, they must owe me a small fortune...


Contrails are made of ice, and ice is made of water. Water is essential to survival, so I'm really not that worried, for myself or anyone else. Thanks for your concern, though!

You have provided nothing but smack talk, diversion, subject change, and total nonsense. You have shown you know nothing on the subject and you cant even find credible information on the internet. The only technical thing you coppied and pasted you didnt even understand.
My curiosity is why you would take the stand you do. Is it for political reasons? Do you think you are protecting Obama? Or is it just pure ignorance and total control from the mainstream proaganda. I can tell your not smart enough to be part of the coverup ... so thats out. I will tell you what I would like to see ... I'd love to see the expression on your face when you finally realize everything I'm saying is true. I'd love to see that shock and horror when you realize your government is spraying bad chemicals on your head and you breathe it in every minute of everyday. Think about it when your throat is sore, you have a bad headache and your eyes are burning ...

[swagger]

Originally Posted by Don9

You have provided nothing but smack talk, diversion, subject change, and total nonsense. You have shown you know nothing on the subject and you cant even find credible information on the internet. The only technical thing you coppied and pasted you didnt even understand.

I provide common sense, logic and reality. You provide confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance and an utter lack of understanding of anything related to science.

You're right on the math, though - I don't understand it. It was way over my head. That doesn't change the fact that your response to the highly technical explanation of how to derive the temperature at which a contrail will form based on multiple variables was, "LOL."

If you think that the Air Force created that specific document not because they have a legitimate interest in knowing the details of how/why/when a contrail will form, but because they're trying to cover for a secret program, you'd be.... wrong. According to you, it's as simple as taking a temperature measurement on the ground.

Originally Posted by Don9

My curiosity is why you would take the stand you do.

Because I'm right and you're wrong, and discussing this topic is incredibly entertaining.

Originally Posted by Don9

Do you think you are protecting Obama?

What's your fascination with Obama? And why on earth do you think I would "protect" him?

According to you, this conspiracy has been in production since the Clinton era. Why focus on Obama? Wouldn't I be protecting Clinton and Bush, too?

Originally Posted by Don9

I can tell your not smart enough to be part of the coverup ... so thats out.

Coming from you, that means... nothing.

Originally Posted by Don9

I will tell you what I would like to see ... I'd love to see the expression on your face when you finally realize everything I'm saying is true. I'd love to see that shock and horror wjen you realize your government is spraying bad chemicals on your head and you breathe it in every minute of everyday.

Don't hold your breath, 'cuz what you believe in so deeply is false, and that day will never come.

Originally Posted by Don9

Think about it when your throat is sore, you have a bad headache and your eyes are burning ...

I call that "allergies." If those symptoms were due to what you say, then the antihistamines wouldn't work.