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Old 01-28-2012, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,833 posts, read 5,829,958 times
Reputation: 3404

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
You seek an answer on the matter from the current crop of candidates and the incumbent?

[now I will LOL]
The fact of the matter is, irrespective of who we elect, we are headed into the "crapper". It's just a question of how long will we have to tread water. If the current administration is re-elected, we will be treading water through this century and may never recover. The lesser of two evils again? I'm afraid so, but the evil on the left far out weighs the evil on the right.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,525,405 times
Reputation: 5606
This says it for me:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/405494_361120077247423_138121286213971_1475531_200 6754928_n.jpg (broken link)
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:17 AM
 
50,046 posts, read 26,520,803 times
Reputation: 15634
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Again, I am amused by your avatar, which is an irony, which seems to escape you.

1. You do not make more than $250K per year. By your diction, that is obvious. I am sorry, but you are not a part of my income and socio-economic class and that is quite obvious. I am amused that someone could suggest that this is true, when obviously it is not.


PS- You are not wealthy and there is no excuse for ignorance.
LOL...talk about IRONY!

No one on these boards is wealthy. Stop it already!
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:20 AM
 
50,046 posts, read 26,520,803 times
Reputation: 15634
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
You have absolute facts, that Obama, will give to us great Change this time around. Do you have facts that he will not spend as he said the first time around. Do you have facts, that this economy will not be raked over the coals again, can your promise us, Obama will bring to this great Nation, a good thriving economy, as he told us the first time around he would.
Nope. But since you can't either, why shouldn't i vote for him?

And again, there is more to being the President than economic issues.
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,525,405 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
For all those who are Obama supporters, let us suppose that you get your wish and Obama is re-elected. Obama has shown no efforts toward fiscal restraint and is projected to accumulate a debt total of $24 trillion by the end of a second term.

What happens then? The next president and the US inherit a debt that is 175% of GDP, there are few alternatives-

1. marked austerity measures in which entitlements are cut to the bare minimum. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

2. US default, which creates a global depression and negatively impacts EVERYONE. Who suffers the most? The poor and what remains of the middle class.

3. Hyperinflation and or further marked currency devaluation. All assets denominated in dollars are reduced in relative value, contributing to the further demise of the US economy.


So explain to me how four more years of Obama is beneficial to anyone?
You leave off the obvious alternative, raise taxes. But you also don't understand macro-economics. The key is growth, which we have had a gap in potential GDP in the trillions. While conservatives ridicule the $787 billion (over two-years) stimulus, the states have been heavily contributing to a depressed economy through their own austerity programs.

Below, is from Jared Bernstein’s blog and shows the yearly percentage point contribution to or subtraction from real GDP growth from the state and local sectors since the late 1980s.



This is from Paul Krugman's blog:



The alternative is public policies that boost GDP. Let us also remember what the GDP plan was, had they been in charge, -- drastically cut public spending and raise interest rates -- both are the exact opposites of the policies that we require. The GOP wanted no stimulus, when the prescription was a larger stimulus.

But overall, your narrative is that the Obama Administration was a big spender, when, in fact, the spending in the government was almost entirely due to a poor economy and kicks in automatically. We're spending more on unemployment benefits, SNAP and Medicaid because there are more people applying for these programs due a poor economy -- not because Obama has created more gov't programs.

Moreover, government revenues have dropped also related to a poor economy.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:01 PM
 
3,046 posts, read 2,733,374 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
1. You do not make more than $250K per year. By your diction, that is obvious. I am sorry, but you are not a part of my income and socio-economic class and that is quite obvious. I am amused that someone could suggest that this is true, when obviously it is not. I can smell a fake from a mile away. We do not speak in the same fashion that you do and do not have the same set of values.

2. "Enslavement" referred to actual "enslavement" of those who make over $250K per year.

Are you that dense? There is no excuse for ignorance

3. Taxation is not our problem. The problem is SPENDING.

4. There was never a budget "surplus". That is a liberal myth

5. The presumed "Clinton surplus" had nothing to do with Clinton, and had everything to do with a republican congress that forced some fiscal restraint. Clinton OBJECTED to the budget contstraints FORCED UPON HIM by the republican congress. Had Clinton had his way, he would have spent wildly, as he had promoted in his first three years in the White House. Get a clue.

6. Bush was a liberal

7. The DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS OF 2006-2010 was when the debt really increased. Prior to the democrats gaining control of the congress, and thus the purse strings of government, spending was constrained. With the Pelosi congress, spending escalated, but went OUT OF CONTROL when Obama gained the White House. No longer was there a republican veto to check the wild spending of congress.

Civics lesson- Congress controls spending


PS- You are not wealthy and there is no excuse for ignorance.
Really? You're going to talk about my diction and yet you put finger quotes around everything? As for your socio-economic status, arguing that on an internet forum is really pointless. You'd do best to focus on your actual arguments since you really haven't had any success here in making any points. In terms of your values, living where I do, I know some people of rather staggering wealth. They all have their own minds and thoughts and there's no common values amongst them. I'm fairly certain that someone like Soros has rather markedly different values than Sheldon Anderson.

"Enslavement" or enslavement? Whatever argument you're trying to make here really isn't making any sense. There's no enslavement of wealthy people in this country. The United States is a low tax jurisdiction and it is plenty friendly to those with power and wealth. There's no enslavement. Raising the top marginal rate on those who make over $250k per year won't cause a massive migration of millionaires to other jurisdictions. It didn't when Clinton did it.

Taxing the rich definitely does help the financial situation. There is CBO data that outlines how it would change the country's financial picture without causing any real hardship on any taxpayer. It does get overly emotional people such as yourself upset, but that's not a real problem.

Based on what? Feel free to outline what you can cut. The current problem is largely recessionary which has implications for both reduced revenues and reduced spending. Also, as I pointed out, making large cuts right now would drag down the economy at a time when Europe is facing recession. Not so smart.

"Surplus" or surplus? Yes, there was a budget surplus. You were talking about it in your previous post. Feel free to provide some data instead of making silly one line posts.
File:Budget Deficit 1971 to 2001.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Presumed Clinton surplus? I thought that you said there was no surplus. If that was the case, why would you flip flop and make this argument. Figure out what you want to argue in terms of there being or not being a surplus in the late 90's and I'll be happy to continue owning you in this rather rudimentary debate.

Bush was a liberal? Based on what? Aren't you supposed to have awe inspiring diction and amazing upper echelon powers of persuasion? Please feel free to explain what you mean here. For someone who is so much more wealthy and advanced than the rest of us here, you sure write poorly. I don't recall reading anything about the Rothschilds writing in point form.

The spending that went "out of control" when Obama took office was mostly due to the recession. There weren't that many spending bills passed. With your amazing upper class intellect, I'm surprised you haven't looked at this data. The stimulus plans were either passed or designed largely by George W Bush and his staff. Much of the spending increases were part of entitlement spending and much of the deficit was just a drop in tax receipts.

I do know what Congress does, but they're not given carte blanche to do whatever they like. The US political system is awash with checks and balances. That you'd mention Congressional power without context is rather silly.

Please feel free to come up with some actual arguments that aren't just you venting your emotions. We're adults here, so feel free to talk like one.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:55 AM
 
Location: High Cotton
6,131 posts, read 6,426,953 times
Reputation: 3657
Latest polls:

Obama - 37%
"Yet to be named" GOP Candidate - 57%

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Old 01-30-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,525,405 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by highcotton View Post
Latest polls:

Obama - 37%
"Yet to be named" GOP Candidate - 57%

Linky?
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,588 posts, read 10,732,091 times
Reputation: 9292
Why would Obama and his committed of elite wory about a debt of trillions of dollars- They are not going to pay a penny! Others will be enslaved to pay...like a whole nation!

These guys and others...are all millionares...no matter what happens they will live well..they can NOT relate to the average person...they assume that everybody has bus fare..that everybody can eat when and what they want. As a friend of mine said.."these people do not even breathe our air" - they have their own supply.

The debt was incured by the super super rich..not by the average person - infact this enrichment of the rich - was brought about by the impoverishment of millions of others....put it this way - when there are two piles of matter (money) and it is a fixed and stable amount - In order for one pile of cash to become larger..the other has to be depleated and made smaller - it's economics and physics...Obama and the rest of them know exactly how this debt happened - and they are not upset about it - cos it make them MORE rich...so what are you going to do with these types of worms? Not much!
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:15 AM
 
Location: NC
6,032 posts, read 7,530,799 times
Reputation: 6350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Why would Obama and his committed of elite wory about a debt of trillions of dollars- They are not going to pay a penny! Others will be enslaved to pay...like a whole nation!

These guys and others...are all millionares...no matter what happens they will live well..they can NOT relate to the average person...they assume that everybody has bus fare..that everybody can eat when and what they want. As a friend of mine said.."these people do not even breathe our air" - they have their own supply.

The debt was incured by the super super rich..not by the average person - infact this enrichment of the rich - was brought about by the impoverishment of millions of others....put it this way - when there are two piles of matter (money) and it is a fixed and stable amount - In order for one pile of cash to become larger..the other has to be depleated and made smaller - it's economics and physics...Obama and the rest of them know exactly how this debt happened - and they are not upset about it - cos it make them MORE rich...so what are you going to do with these types of worms? Not much!

Exactly. Obama is owned by the super rich and Wall Street and is DOING EXACTLY what they want......
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