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Old 02-03-2012, 11:39 AM
 
5,330 posts, read 6,121,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
The question is: at what point is it reasonable to expect that a teenager is capable of reading varied material and being able to handle it? Do we think most 14 year olds are unable to read complex material in context? Do we think they are going to rush out and imitate everything they read?

I've read the book and it is not some porno piece. It's a good book with a lot to offer IMO. Would it be okay for a high school junior or senior to read to folks? I mean what is the real problem here?
According to at least one in this thread, they're all children. 1st grade to 12th, children all. Letting teens read this is advocating giving smut to children, according to poster.

Is this view shared by others who object to this book being used in high school?
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:42 AM
 
164 posts, read 160,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
According to at least one in this thread, they're all children. 1st grade to 12th, children all. Letting teens read this is advocating giving smut to children, according to poster.

Is this view shared by others who object to this book being used in high school?
You're also not paying for the classes in highschool and it's mandatory for all students to take them.

In college, it's different because you choose to pay to get educated on a particular subject.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:43 AM
 
5,933 posts, read 5,412,766 times
Reputation: 10584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
What benefit does a student receive from reading about the graphic sex? What exactly are they learning? Is it necessary?

Let's say it taught them how to be "better" at sex. Is that something you want your child to learn?

I just don't see the benefit.
Well, what was the benefit of reading Catcher In The Rye and Canterburry Tales? Did it teach you how to be a depressed anti-social person or a horny Victorian? LOL

The book really is a coming-of-age tale about learning how to embrace both the good and bad of where you come from, and moving on to become your own person. And it is wickedly funny, the protagonist is smart and likeable. The sexual parts are not really the focus, more about establishing a true-to-life portrait of the world this kid and his friends inhabit. I can't imagine a class discussion that centers around that frankly, because it isn't really what the book is focused on and there is not much of it. But it does help draw a fuller picture of who they are.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:44 AM
 
3,064 posts, read 2,236,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
Every parent can get other like-minded parents together to attend school board meetings, voice their concerns, and have an affect on the curriculum. Why are you concerned about students of other parents in other localities? Are you asserting that included in "our freedoms" is your freedom to mandate what books other schools assign?

Conservatives believe localized, small government is best, right? Not nanny-stating other people's lives across the country.
This represents a trend in the public schools' reading material. That is why it is relevant and up for discussion here.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:52 AM
 
5,330 posts, read 6,121,958 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
What benefit does a student receive from reading about the graphic sex? What exactly are they learning? Is it necessary?

Let's say it taught them how to be "better" at sex. Is that something you want your child to learn?

I just don't see the benefit.
Every passage of literature is meant to impart a lesson? Everything a character does, says, thinks?

And I wish someone would quote examples of the "graphic sex" from this book, since some have latched on to that characterization and keep repeating it. Some of you people are acting like the book is a how-to manual for teen sex.

Here is one teaching guide for the book:
http://www.d.umn.edu/~lmillerc/TeachingEnglishHomePage/TeachingUnits/AbsolutelyTrueDiaryofaPart-TimeIndian.htm

This unit is designed for ninth grade, but could easily be used with eighth or tenth-grade students. It includes plans for some research of Native American context. However, depending on the students’ level of familiarity with Native American culture, reservation life, poverty, or alcoholism, more or less background knowledge or discussion may be appropriate. Some parents or staff may object to brief references to masturbation, so clearly develop your educational rationale for teaching the book, familiarize yourself with the controversy, and consider addressing the issue by communicating with administrators and/or parents. If the content is deemed too graphic for a school or community, a compromise may be to use the book as an optional extra, rather than as a core book that all students read.

Brief references to masturbation. In one Amazon review, the reviewer said it was a male character bragging that he was good at it. Not a play-by-play depiction of the act, not a how-to. And then I found that passage:

“Yep, I have to admit that isosceles triangles make me feel hormonal. Most guys, no matter what age, get excited about curves and circles, but not me. Don’t get me wrong, I like girls and their curves. And I really like women and their curvier curves. I spend hours in the bathroom with a magazine that has one thousand pictures of naked movie stars: Naked women + right hand = happy happy joy joy. Yep, that’s right. I admit that I masturbate. I’m proud of it. I’m good at it. I’m ambidextrous. If there were a Professional Masturbators League, I’d get drafted number one and make millions of dollars. And maybe you’re thinking, ‘Well, you really shouldn’t be talking about masturbation in public.’ Well, tough, I’m going to talk about it because EVERYBODY does it. And EVERYBODY likes it. And if God hadn’t wanted us to masturbate, then God wouldn’t have given us thumbs. But, the thing is, no matter how much time my thumbs and I spend with the curves of imaginary women, I am much more in love with the right angles of buildings.”

- from Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian

"Graphic sex" is not the mere mentioning of sex or its acts. "Graphic" means it's depicted to the point it can visualized (if the medium is literature), with detailed descriptions of the action. I, for one, don't think that a character saying "yes, I masturbate with magazines" is graphic or pornographic.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:59 AM
 
5,933 posts, read 5,412,766 times
Reputation: 10584
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
Every passage of literature is meant to impart a lesson? Everything a character does, says, thinks?

And I wish someone would quote examples of the "graphic sex" from this book, since some have latched on to that characterization and keep repeating it. Some of you people are acting like the book is a how-to manual for teen sex.

Here is one teaching guide for the book:
http://www.d.umn.edu/~lmillerc/TeachingEnglishHomePage/TeachingUnits/AbsolutelyTrueDiaryofaPart-TimeIndian.htm

This unit is designed for ninth grade, but could easily be used with eighth or tenth-grade students. It includes plans for some research of Native American context. However, depending on the students’ level of familiarity with Native American culture, reservation life, poverty, or alcoholism, more or less background knowledge or discussion may be appropriate. Some parents or staff may object to brief references to masturbation, so clearly develop your educational rationale for teaching the book, familiarize yourself with the controversy, and consider addressing the issue by communicating with administrators and/or parents. If the content is deemed too graphic for a school or community, a compromise may be to use the book as an optional extra, rather than as a core book that all students read.

Brief references to masturbation. In one Amazon review, the reviewer said it was a male character bragging that he was good at it. Not a play-by-play depiction of the act, not a how-to. And then I found that passage:

“Yep, I have to admit that isosceles triangles make me feel hormonal. Most guys, no matter what age, get excited about curves and circles, but not me. Don’t get me wrong, I like girls and their curves. And I really like women and their curvier curves. I spend hours in the bathroom with a magazine that has one thousand pictures of naked movie stars: Naked women + right hand = happy happy joy joy. Yep, that’s right. I admit that I masturbate. I’m proud of it. I’m good at it. I’m ambidextrous. If there were a Professional Masturbators League, I’d get drafted number one and make millions of dollars. And maybe you’re thinking, ‘Well, you really shouldn’t be talking about masturbation in public.’ Well, tough, I’m going to talk about it because EVERYBODY does it. And EVERYBODY likes it. And if God hadn’t wanted us to masturbate, then God wouldn’t have given us thumbs. But, the thing is, no matter how much time my thumbs and I spend with the curves of imaginary women, I am much more in love with the right angles of buildings.”

- from Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian

"Graphic sex" is not the mere mentioning of sex or its acts. "Graphic" means it's depicted to the point it can visualized (if the medium is literature), with detailed descriptions of the action. I, for one, don't think that a character saying "yes, I masturbate with magazines" is graphic or pornographic.
LOL! Yep, that's basically what the parts that refer to sex are like. There's another part where he gets a hard on over... books. As in he's so excited to be in the library that he gets a boner, after another boy explains to him books are so damn cool he should be aroused by them. Heh. It's actually pretty funny.

I think there is another part with a BJ but right now I'm not sure if I'm confusing it with another Sherman Alexie book.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:06 PM
 
5,330 posts, read 6,121,958 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
You're also not paying for the classes in highschool and it's mandatory for all students to take them.

In college, it's different because you choose to pay to get educated on a particular subject.
I don't see how your response followed my question. Do you believe all ages up to 18 should be "protected" from this book, or other assigned books with sexual content, however brief it may be?

As to your comment, I certainly do pay for my children's public schooling. And in college, it seems it would be more irritating if you paid for a class that fulfilled required credits (like English lit) and the prof assigned a book you objected to. What do you do? Drop the class because of it (and perhaps lose your money), or feel angry that you spent money on something you find morally objectionable? Or just grow up?
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:08 PM
 
5,330 posts, read 6,121,958 times
Reputation: 2624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
LOL! Yep, that's basically what the parts that refer to sex are like. There's another part where he gets a hard on over... books. As in he's so excited to be in the library that he gets a boner, after another boy explains to him books are so damn cool he should be aroused by them. Heh. It's actually pretty funny.
LOL, I remember using books, placed strategically, to hide sudden unintended boners! At that age you're mortified thinking that the whole library notices!
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:13 PM
 
3,064 posts, read 2,236,019 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
Every passage of literature is meant to impart a lesson? Everything a character does, says, thinks?

And I wish someone would quote examples of the "graphic sex" from this book, since some have latched on to that characterization and keep repeating it. Some of you people are acting like the book is a how-to manual for teen sex.

Here is one teaching guide for the book:
http://www.d.umn.edu/~lmillerc/TeachingEnglishHomePage/TeachingUnits/AbsolutelyTrueDiaryofaPart-TimeIndian.htm

This unit is designed for ninth grade, but could easily be used with eighth or tenth-grade students. It includes plans for some research of Native American context. However, depending on the students’ level of familiarity with Native American culture, reservation life, poverty, or alcoholism, more or less background knowledge or discussion may be appropriate. Some parents or staff may object to brief references to masturbation, so clearly develop your educational rationale for teaching the book, familiarize yourself with the controversy, and consider addressing the issue by communicating with administrators and/or parents. If the content is deemed too graphic for a school or community, a compromise may be to use the book as an optional extra, rather than as a core book that all students read.

Brief references to masturbation. In one Amazon review, the reviewer said it was a male character bragging that he was good at it. Not a play-by-play depiction of the act, not a how-to. And then I found that passage:

“Yep, I have to admit that isosceles triangles make me feel hormonal. Most guys, no matter what age, get excited about curves and circles, but not me. Don’t get me wrong, I like girls and their curves. And I really like women and their curvier curves. I spend hours in the bathroom with a magazine that has one thousand pictures of naked movie stars: Naked women + right hand = happy happy joy joy. Yep, that’s right. I admit that I masturbate. I’m proud of it. I’m good at it. I’m ambidextrous. If there were a Professional Masturbators League, I’d get drafted number one and make millions of dollars. And maybe you’re thinking, ‘Well, you really shouldn’t be talking about masturbation in public.’ Well, tough, I’m going to talk about it because EVERYBODY does it. And EVERYBODY likes it. And if God hadn’t wanted us to masturbate, then God wouldn’t have given us thumbs. But, the thing is, no matter how much time my thumbs and I spend with the curves of imaginary women, I am much more in love with the right angles of buildings.”

- from Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian

"Graphic sex" is not the mere mentioning of sex or its acts. "Graphic" means it's depicted to the point it can visualized (if the medium is literature), with detailed descriptions of the action. I, for one, don't think that a character saying "yes, I masturbate with magazines" is graphic or pornographic.
There are several things inappropriate in this passage that indicate it should not be required reading for 14 year olds in the public schools. Many people would object to the very crude presentation of what some still consider to be something private. Some people still value and teach their children modesty. Some people might object to the use of "God" in the argument the character makes for masturbation. Some religions are against masturbation. Some might not object at all and enjoy the read. That's fine. Go get it at a library or book store. The incorporation of character's private sex lives into kids' literature isn't necessary. Don't our school's failing grades with regard to academics shout loud and clear that there are more important things to concentrate on - things that aren't so controversial?
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:16 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,558,471 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
LOL, I remember using books, placed strategically, to hide sudden unintended boners! At that age you're mortified thinking that the whole library notices!
At that age most boys are sporting boners 22 hours a day! If these people don't like the curriculum then send your kids to private school. From what I read in the post above this is all about nothing.
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